[old greg]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

And those engine weights you linked to are woefully inconsistent, they even mentioned that they needed a consistent system for comparison.
The engine weights I gave included were older engines like the EA series but they were dry longblocks w/o PS or AC and naturally aspirated. Plus the engine you listed was a newer one and it could have had anything or nothing on the serpentine belt.

The consistency of their testing is irrelevant to this discussion as I only used the weight from one engine. Furthermore, I myself said that there can be no direct comparison.

Originally Posted by old greg

It's impossible to make direct comparisons though.

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

I am arguing that they have enough of a difference in regard to the block and heads since there is significant weight differences. If the EA series were 1.6L-1.8L and they are almost 70lbs lighter than the EJ22 in older engines, why would the newer EL15 or the unknown FB16 be based on heavier engines like the EJ20 and FB20 respectively and weigh exactly the same?

The EA motors have nothing in common with the EJ motors aside from both being Subaru flat fours. In addition to having tiny OHV heads, they undoubtedly have a shorter deck height and a smaller bore pitch. They are not comparable.

It is illogical to argue that a small displacement FB will be lighter because the EJ22E had dinky little SOHC heads. You yourself say:

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

I know they're going to build a FB16 and it's going to be a turbo based variant.

Such an engine would need all the breathing ability it could get. It would not have heads significantly different from an FB20/25. They would be large complicated DOHC heads, with variable vale timing and lift.

The EL is based on the EJ because it is, this is a known fact. Your hypothetical FB16 would be based on the FB20/25 because it's an FB16. If it were an XYZ16 then it could be anything you wanted it to be and I would gladly agree that such an engine could be 50 lb lighter.

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

If anything the weight difference between the EJ22 and EJ25 was enough to validate my point

The difference in weight comes almost entirely from the heads. See this discussion as evidence:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AirSoob/message/39751
In which the weight of an SOHC EJ22 longblock is given as 182lbs, and that of an SOHC EJ25 is given as 186lbs. Another poster claims to have weighed his DOHC EJ25 longblock at 202 lbs. Further a third party is claimed to have found the DOHC heads to weigh ~15.5 lbs more than the SOHC heads. According to these guys then, there is approximately a 4 lb difference between the EJ22 and EJ25 shortblocks.

As I've previously said, a turbo FB16 would use the same heads (or bigger,to be honest) as an FB20. There would be a negligible weight difference in the shortblock. Both would use plastic intake manifolds which hardly weigh anything, and both would use the same accessories. The weight difference would be negligible, and that's before you consider the weight of a turbocharger, intercooler and heavy duty exhaust manifolds.