Official OpenFlash Tablet FA20 Tuning Tech Discussion Thread

[steve99]

Originally Posted by Kodename47

Does the OFT not have qan ECU reset function?

not that i have found

[EAGLE5]

As soon as the AFR goes out of whack, the ECU will begin changing short term fuel trims. Then soon it will change the long term trims. No real need to reset. It might happen a bit faster with a reset ECU. Not sure. It should happen pretty quickly either way. The OFT Roms also, I believe, have a wide range of adjustment, so they can deal with a lot of variables.

[zeppy]

Just got my car porn from @vishnu and loaded stage one map.




First log here, any opinions, i do understand i got to get some miles under the tune?

http://www.datazap.me/u/zeppy/stg1-b...ata=1-2-8-9-12

[solidONE]

So I attempted to lean out the STG 2 EL E85 1.55b tune for my bone stock FR-S by adjusting the Fuel Map and Closed Loop AFR A and B. After loading the leaned out tune I did a couple of pulls, and the AFR is just as rich as before. What gives? Where else do I need to modify? I just want to lean it out a little bit across the board.

Here what it looks like against the stg1 tune on Virtual Dyno for reference. Seeing that the stock O2 reads lean at the lower AFR's this is really rich for a E85 tune.

[steve99]

Originally Posted by solidONE

So I attempted to lean out the STG 2 EL E85 1.55b tune for my bone stock FR-S by adjusting the Fuel Map and Closed Loop AFR A and B. After loading the leaned out tune I did a couple of pulls, and the AFR is just as rich as before. What gives? Where else do I need to modify? I just want to lean it out a little bit across the board.

Here what it looks like against the stg1 tune on Virtual Dyno for reference. Seeing that the stock O2 reads lean at the lower AFR's this is really rich for a E85 tune.

If you trying to lean it out at full throttle you will need to modify the OL fuel table ? not the CL

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by steve99

If you trying to lean it out at full throttle you will need to modify the OL fuel table ? not the CL

Isn't that what the "fuel map" table is, the OL fuel table? Besides that I don't see a open loop afr table in tuner pro.

[steve99]

Originally Posted by solidONE

Isn't that what the "fuel map" table is, the OL fuel table? Besides that I don't see a open loop afr table in tuner pro.

I have always used rom raider, are the tunepro defs still up to date ??

in RR the table is called OL fuel table, not sure with tunepro.

Could be that the changes your making for cl are being counteracted by fuel trims in ol,

as shivs uses the trims to compensate for E%, might be best to ask shiv

[Tromatic]

Originally Posted by solidONE

So I attempted to lean out the STG 2 EL E85 1.55b tune for my bone stock FR-S by adjusting the Fuel Map and Closed Loop AFR A and B.

IN for pics of grenade!

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by steve99

I have always used rom raider, are the tunepro defs still up to date ??

in RR the table is called OL fuel table, not sure with tunepro.

Could be that the changes your making for cl are being counteracted by fuel trims in ol,

as shivs uses the trims to compensate for E%, might be best to ask shiv

Yeah I checked it on rom raider and it's the same thing, Fueling Primary Open Loop and Fuel Map (on tuner pro).

I went ahead and reflashed the same modded rom and gave it a few miles to relearn, filled up the tak with fresh E85 then went to take some more logs. Here are the results.


So basically I see no appreciable gain in power at all. Only benefit I see is possibly fuel consumption. May have to play with the timing advance to get any more power. The AFR are still pretty conservative particularly in the mid range around the dip (still very rich) and IAM pegged at 1. Notice how the AFR curve and the torque curve matching each other. So....... I have 0 worries of grenading this motor. mmkay?

Originally Posted by Tromatic

IN for pics of grenade!

Hey thanks..., buddy.

[Kodename47]

Why so lean? I've just done a bit of digging that suggests 0.75-0.85 lambda is ideal for E85. As we don't have it over here though I'm not sure. Have you just bumped the whole map up by the same amount??

If E85 is like petrol, you'll gain more by advancing the tune than you will by going leaner. Thats why its beneficial to see if making a tune richer will reduce knock before removing timing.

[Shiv@Openflash]

Originally Posted by Kodename47

Why so lean? I've just done a bit of digging that suggests 0.75-0.85 lambda is ideal for E85. As we don't have it over here though I'm not sure. Have you just bumped the whole map up by the same amount??

If E85 is like petrol, you'll gain more by advancing the tune than you will by going leaner. Thats why its beneficial to see if making a tune richer will reduce knock before removing timing.

+1

Our E85 maps only run slightly less rich than our gasoline maps. Trying to make them run considerably richer will just cause a power loss and result in a less responsive engine. You can even hear the engine sound strained when running too lean. I don't think you will ever cause damage running too lean on E85 (on an NA engine). The bigger concern I have with people street tuning on E85 is running too much ignition advance. You can easily run so much ignition advance (without knock) that you will start to lose power (and put unnecessary load on your rods.) Custom E85 tuning is truly best left for the dyno when you can actually see what makes most power since the usual telltale sings of an overly aggressive tune don't manifest themselves.

Cheers,
shiv

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by solidONE

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

+1

Our E85 maps only run slightly less rich than our gasoline maps. Trying to make them run considerably richer will just cause a power loss and result in a less responsive engine. You can even hear the engine sound strained when running too lean. I don't think you will ever cause damage running too lean on E85 (on an NA engine). The bigger concern I have with people street tuning on E85 is running too much ignition advance. You can easily run so much ignition advance (without knock) that you will start to lose power (and put unnecessary load on your rods.) Custom E85 tuning is truly best left for the dyno when you can actually see what makes most power since the usual telltale sings of an overly aggressive tune don't manifest themselves.

Cheers,
shiv

If you looked at where the AFR's are running with the Stg2 E85 tune on a stock car, you'll see makes it run super rich. What I did was try to bring it closer to what you stated 'slightly less rich' or rather about the same AFR as on gasoline tune.

And no, I did not just increase the AFR target values on the entire map, the low load and lower RPM areas I left mostly alone.



This is what I'll be trying to do next in terms of adjusting the fuel. But before that I may add a bit of timing advance to the OTS E85 tune and see if any more power is realized. And if there is more power to be had that way, I will then start to dial back the fuel again.

[steve99]

I can see your logic , but it may be worth heeding shiv,s advice.

With the extra variable of E% being compensated by fuel trims these tunes are likely to be a fine balancing act and a compromise due no flex fuel sensor.

[Kodename47]

0.8 lambda is 11.76:1 AFR on gasoline so based on that it looks like you want targets of around 11.7-12. I have absolutely no idea of what is ideal though and as Shiv has said, you can hit MBT with Ethanol so without real testing it's not ideal.


General consensus is that if you start advancing timing and the power gain is minimal without knock, you're around MBT and it's best to back off the timing to the last known with the biggest gain. This is done for reliability rather than searching for that last few bhp. As Shiv has done his testing, I wouldn't go too mental.


It's also going to be difficult to do any form of MAF scaling/calibration if the E% content is varying.