..... vs. DC2 Integra Type R

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Touge Monster

I well I do run touge especialy down hill all of the weight/power/steering through the front wheels not good...kinda hard to power slide an ff.. not to mention its harder to make mid corner adjusments much more commited to a line.

well all that togue nonsense aside, the flip side of that coin is that on the uphill the itr would have all those disadvantages be reversed. i would think that on unconditioned irs would be even more important

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by fatoni

well all that togue nonsense aside, the flip side of that coin is that on the uphill the itr would have all those disadvantages be reversed. i would think that on unconditioned irs would be even more important

Except uphill the driven wheels have no grip, so it's moot.

[MidnightMonkey]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Forget the math? It's only the language of the universe, the language of God Almighty!

Not always a difference in the desired direction, though... Not at all saying that you didn't experience an improvement at the tracks you got to. Only saying that "gears" don't always give people what they really wanted, which was a legitimately faster car for their usage.

Opposite is often true. If you add torque to add power, subtract weight, and add lateral grip, optimal gearing will be *taller*. However if you take a given displacement and tweak it more for higher-rpm performance, optimal gearing is shorter (numerically higher).

See above.

The FR-S or the Type R? In either case, you should consider two things:
1. with the same cam profiles, same valve sizes, same intake/exhaust ports, you're not going to make any more power by revving higher
2. simply going to new springs and retainers does NOTHING to beef up the bottom end, which may well already near its limit for reliability at the existing redline/rev-limiter

We used to just call it "LOWER" gearing, but somewhere along the line (late 90s?) newbs couldn't grasp the concept that 4.77 gearing is LOWER than 4.10 gearing.

Calling lower (numerically higher) gearing "quicker" can be false advertising!


Yup. Adding power via adding torque means optimal gearing becomes taller (numerically lower!).

All this talk about math and gear ratios are making my pants a little tight. I have absolutely no idea WTF you guys are trying to accomplish with those formulas tho. Do you guys have some reference material a geek might be able to dip into?

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Except uphill the driven wheels have no grip, so it's moot.

to say that would mean you are saying that the front wheels wouldnt be any more overpowered on the downhill. my point was that going up hill, the extra weight over the front would be an advantage

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by fatoni

to say that would mean you are saying that the front wheels wouldnt be any more overpowered on the downhill. my point was that going up hill, the extra weight over the front would be an advantage

Quite the opposite. Even a 53/47 rwd car will have the advantage on acceleration, as it loads up the drive wheels where fwd unloads them. On uphill, even more advantage to decently balanced rwd over fwd.

Even with ridonkulous (but necessary) 60-65% weight on the fronts, fwd has a drive wheel traction disadvantage under acceleration in just about any conditions short of snow/ice.

Wrong wheel drive...

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Quite the opposite. Even a 53/47 rwd car will have the advantage on acceleration, as it loads up the drive wheels where fwd unloads them. On uphill, even more advantage to decently balanced rwd over fwd.

Even with ridonkulous (but necessary) 60-65% weight on the fronts, fwd has a drive wheel traction disadvantage under acceleration in just about any conditions short of snow/ice.

Wrong wheel drive...

my only point is that using uphill or downhill conditions as a factor as to why one car is better than another is going negated when going the other way. the only reason i wrote it like that was because i was referring to his specific situation. either way, the corolla is not as good a car as the itr regardless of drive wheels

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by fatoni

my only point is that using uphill or downhill conditions as a factor as to why one car is better than another is going negated when going the other way.

rwd has the advantage going uphill or downhill.

the only reason i wrote it like that was because i was referring to his specific situation. either way, the corolla is not as good a car as the itr regardless of drive wheels

Of course the ITR has much better power/weight, and better suspension layout. With similar power/weight, though, gimme the AE86 any day. I'd rather live with the live rear axle than with the ITR's fwd.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by ZDan

rwd has the advantage going uphill or downhill.


Of course the ITR has much better power/weight, and better suspension layout. With similar power/weight, though, gimme the AE86 any day. I'd rather live with the live rear axle than with the ITR's fwd.

to each his own but even down to the chassis the ae86 is a pile of junk. i dont know why you hate fwd so much. i know i must sound like a broken record but if you look at things like the cobalt ss, it does more with fwd and less power than alot of other cars that people drool over because the are "proper" or whatever. there is never going to be a simple rwd vs fwd debate. they come with a host of other effects on the way a car is built like weight, cost, power to the wheels etc. all that aside, all im saying on this thread is that the itr is a better car than the corolla. its faster up or downhill and it feels better doing it

[ill86]

"feels better" is VERY subjective.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by ill86

"feels better" is VERY subjective.

fine how about has a much more communicative chassis, the interior light doesnt turn on because of cornering forces, and irs allows for more progressive rear wheel breakaway

[ill86]

That sounds awesome. Great job.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by ill86

That sounds awesome. Great job.

do you know who tim and eric are?

[whtchocla7e]

fatoni made it a habit to pop out of nowhere in all miata,z and now honda threads just to rag on the toybaru every chance he gets... hard to take him seriously at this point.

[ill86]

Originally Posted by fatoni

do you know who tim and eric are?

Do you honestly expect a reasonable answer at this point?

I know lots of tims and erics..