Comfort + Steering Feel

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by navanodd

Initial impressions so far of the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S3+:
- Definitely more overall grip than Primacies
- Quieter, but not quite as much as I had hoped. My Primacies weren't as worn as others when swapped though. (6/32"-7/32")
- Ride is the same, but there is more road feel. I consider this a good thing.
- Steering feel is slightly different. I wouldn't say better or worse, just that this tire has a different characteristic to the steering feel/response.

The chane in road feel is what I called "firmed up" before. Not sure it is the most accurate term but was the best I could come up with.
My Primacies were toast and noisy as hell so maybe that is why I noticed more difference.
I have found that they get a tiny bit bouncy after a long haul in very hot weather but it isn't horrid.
After a coup,e of thousand kilometres I still think they are the best tires I have ever used on a car.

[Gforce]

Originally Posted by chaoskaze

weird i think the PSS is really soft like more then PS3+.. Maybe cuz the weather in vegas?

The only significant difference between the Supersports and the A/S3 is the rubber compound. All season tires operate in a lower ideal temperature range than the summer tire version.

Pirelli used the same method when designing its high performance winter tire and the high performance all season tire. The carcass is basically same.

If you drive where ambient temperatures are routinely warm, 20C or more, then summer tires will deliver better performance. As it gets cooler the high performance all season is now the better choice. Five years ago that was not the case.

One interesting aspect of the new Michelin all season 3 is the relative low density of siping. To help compensate for this the grooves are molded with a micro saw tooth pattern internal to the tread grooves. For a high performance tire with so little siping the performance in light snow is remarkably good. Not so good on ice.

Pirelli apparently decided in favour of better warm weather performance and less competence on snow or ice, based on the tire rack comparison test. My next set of "summer tires " will likely be those Pirellis as I run winters for winter.

[Spacemane969]

Originally Posted by N1rve

I've had Michelin Pilot Sport AS3+ for over a year now (since April 2015) and now has 15,000 miles roughly. Compared to stock tires, Primacy, the grip is more than stock, quieter in terms of road noise, and is a little bit more comfortable over bumps and stuff. When these tires were brand new, it was hard to slide the rear end, now a year later, it's still hard to slide the rear end but it's getting easier as they get worn. Tires under panic stops is more confident inspiring along with driving in the wet compared to stock. I literally drove through puddles of at least 3 inches of rain with AS3+ and no issues of hydroplaning during the odd day of LA flooding.

However, I do notice that the car bounces on uneven pavement that I'm not quite sure was there on stock? Maybe a stiffer sidewall? Another downfall is MPG, I'm averaging I think 23 compared to about 25 before on old stock tires.

I do drive the car hard but no tracking on tires. I can't speak of MPSS or Continentals.

I'm looking to go back to the laser sharp feel of the primacies but this is the first time I've heard an all season being better than a summer tire. How exactly does it have more grip with a 3 season tread pattern?

Also how many miles can I expect from the as3?

[Gforce]

Originally Posted by Spacemane969

I'm looking to go back to the laser sharp feel of the primacies but this is the first time I've heard an all season being better than a summer tire. How exactly does it have more grip with a 3 season tread pattern?

Also how many miles can I expect from the as3?

The Pilot A/S3+ is built on the Pilot carcass is how they did it. Michelins patented variable contact patch technology is the same on both the Supersports (and now the 4s) and the A/S3+. They call it VCP 2.0

Plus Michelin gets the compound pliability using their newer Helios compound (in French it is huile de tournesol) vegetable oil apparently makes rubber softer stronger at the same time. Nokian discovered the same effect from canola oil. Sumitomo Tire (Dunlop outside the US) made the initial discovery.

Under some ambient temperature conditions the A/S3 is actually a better performer.

Don't worry about miles. Worry about age. After four years all tires deteriorate noticeably. After 6 years all tires are junk. After seven years you're taking chances with your life. So, rarely will your tires wear out before they need changing anyway. Bonus if you buy brand new from Michelin, they say their latest Helios compound is so tough Michelin estimates their tires will age out first.

[Spacemane969]

Originally Posted by Gforce

The Pilot A/S3+ is built on the Pilot carcass is how they did it. Michelins patented variable contact patch technology is the same on both the Supersports (and now the 4s) and the A/S3+. They call it VCP 2.0

Plus Michelin gets the compound pliability using their newer Helios compound (in French it is huile de tournesol) vegetable oil apparently makes rubber softer stronger at the same time. Nokian discovered the same effect from canola oil. Sumitomo Tire (Dunlop outside the US) made the initial discovery.

Under some ambient temperature conditions the A/S3 is actually a better performer.

Don't worry about miles. Worry about age. After four years all tires deteriorate noticeably. After 6 years all tires are junk. After seven years you're taking chances with your life. So, rarely will your tires wear out before they need changing anyway. Bonus if you buy brand new from Michelin, they say their latest Helios compound is so tough Michelin estimates their tires will age out first.

I've always wondered about the stability of the PSS but I'm too scared to lose the response in favor of the grip. AS3 sounds like a great choice.

Edit:
You guys have me sold on these tires now. On tire rack there are 4 different sets of AS3s though..any reason not to go for the closeout price?

https://m.tirerack.com/tires/TireSea...ceFilter=400#0

Also why not consider the premier AS?

[N1rve]

Originally Posted by Spacemane969

I'm looking to go back to the laser sharp feel of the primacies but this is the first time I've heard an all season being better than a summer tire. How exactly does it have more grip with a 3 season tread pattern?

Also how many miles can I expect from the as3?

You're comparing a UHP tire to a eco summer tire. It's harder to break traction on the AS3+.

You can expect 45k miles.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Spacemane969

I've always wondered about the stability of the PSS but I'm too scared to lose the response in favor of the grip. AS3 sounds like a great choice.

Edit:
You guys have me sold on these tires now. On tire rack there are 4 different sets of AS3s though..any reason not to go for the closeout price?

https://m.tirerack.com/tires/TireSea...ceFilter=400#0

Also why not consider the premier AS?

These tires have very good handling except when really hot out. I would not use them if you spend a good part of the year over 85 or so. Other than that I love the things for street driving and would be hard pressed to change now.

The tires we have been referencing are the Pilot AS3 PLUS. That Plus is important since the AS3s are an older tech and not nearly as good a tire (according to reviews I have no first hand knowledge of the 3). Don't get the wrong ones by accident.

[sato]

Originally Posted by Vracer111

The stock Michelin's are very nervous at the limits, not as grounded/secure in feeling.

With the Michelins it's constant correction to steering input to keep the car in line... Much better for canyon runs and road course HPDE's than stock or even other higher performance tires I've tried.

While I have not used my FR-S on track or HPDE, I love the way the PSS handle those tight corners and emergency moves with extreme confidence. However, you do have to stay aware as the road can move the car around... apparently due to having so much grip.

Originally Posted by N1rve

Tires under panic stops is more confident inspiring along with driving in the wet compared to stock. I literally drove through puddles of at least 3 inches of rain with AS3+ and no issues of hydroplaning during the odd day of LA flooding.

Panic stops and hydroplaning are no issue for the PSS either. Love that safety factor.

However, I think I may try the AS3+ soon as maybe, maybe enjoy a more civil ride... Or, completely waste the remaining thread on the PSS during a track event?

[Spacemane969]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

These tires have very good handling except when really hot out. I would not use them if you spend a good part of the year over 85 or so. Other than that I love the things for street driving and would be hard pressed to change now.

The tires we have been referencing are the Pilot AS3 PLUS. That Plus is important since the AS3s are an older tech and not nearly as good a tire (according to reviews I have no first hand knowledge of the 3). Don't get the wrong ones by accident.

Do they get floppy in high heat? I need to stick with LRR summers if the performance is that detrimental in heat.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Spacemane969

Do they get floppy in high heat? I need to stick with LRR summers if the performance is that detrimental in heat.

Not "floppy" but they do loosen up just a bit. They are no where near as bad as other AS tires I have used in the heat since they are indeed a UHP tire. The AS compromise is not bad but still there. Don't think you will take much of a hit for even heavy street driving but I would not use them myself if I was tracking where it gets really hot.

[N1rve]

Originally Posted by sato

While I have not used my FR-S on track or HPDE, I love the way the PSS handle those tight corners and emergency moves with extreme confidence. However, you do have to stay aware as the road can move the car around... apparently due to having so much grip.


Panic stops and hydroplaning are no issue for the PSS either. Love that safety factor.

However, I think I may try the AS3+ soon as maybe, maybe enjoy a more civil ride... Or, completely waste the remaining thread on the PSS during a track event?

The AS3+ is a more complaint ride. If you're die-hard performance than the MPSS is for you. But i think they're stopping the MPSS line.

[navanodd]

Little update, since I've just recently taken these off and put my winter tires on.

- Noticing a very slight decrease in fuel economy
- After using them for a while, running them in, and switching to my winter tires, I can definitely say these are much quieter than the Primacies were. People I talk to using bluetooth noticed right away when I put the AS3+ on.
- Significant increase in overall grip compared to Primacies (as a daily street tire, not sure about track).
- Track better on the highway than the Primacies did.

I never used to feel that I was taking a huge performance hit when I'd switch my Primacies out for X-ices, but this year was different having the AS3+. I should've waited a few more weeks. The AS3+ were still perfectly happy at the temperatures we are seeing on the east coast, and my winters are running too hot right now.

Now onto winter #5 for my Michelin X-Ice Xi3's.