Track Day Excessive Oil Temp for factory recommended 0w-20 persists

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by DocWalt

Running an oil cooler would pay for itself quickly in not having to change oil every 2-3 events...

? Is the Porsche dealer doing your oil changes? FWIW I feel like this is super-conservative, but in my case it lines up with normal changes anyway... Oil test results I've seen suggest minimal to no degradation of oil properties at this level of changing. Of all the expenses I incur tracking my car, oil changes is WAY down on the list of $$$/track mile. If you want to absolutely get maximum usage per oil change, you could send periodic samples to Blackstone and base changes on that.

but anyway, 254F in a single lap of Monticello isn't acceptable IMO.

Based on what? 254F is no big deal, at all, for any decent synthetic.

[s30series]

Originally Posted by ZDan

? Is the Porsche dealer doing your oil changes? FWIW I feel like this is super-conservative, but in my case it lines up with normal changes anyway... Oil test results I've seen suggest minimal to no degradation of oil properties at this level of changing. Of all the expenses I incur tracking my car, oil changes is WAY down on the list of $$$/track mile. If you want to absolutely get maximum usage per oil change, you could send periodic samples to Blackstone and base changes on that.

Based on what? 254F is no big deal, at all, for any decent synthetic.

If I changed my oil every two track days I wouldn't worry about 270degree oil as well.

Some of us use the BRZ as a track car AND a daily driver and that just isn't practical. Millers Nanodrive is not cheap oil

I don't know what a "track season" is. I go every chance I can get throughout the year.

You know whats nice? Boosting the shit out of my outback over and over while laughing in the dadwagon and seeing oil temp get up to mid 230s....then lay off for a second and instantly goes back down....cause Millers isn't cheap for that sucker either

[DocWalt]

Originally Posted by ZDan

? Is the Porsche dealer doing your oil changes? FWIW I feel like this is super-conservative, but in my case it lines up with normal changes anyway... Oil test results I've seen suggest minimal to no degradation of oil properties at this level of changing. Of all the expenses I incur tracking my car, oil changes is WAY down on the list of $$$/track mile. If you want to absolutely get maximum usage per oil change, you could send periodic samples to Blackstone and base changes on that.

Based on what? 254F is no big deal, at all, for any decent synthetic.

We'll have to agree to disagree, I'm not changing my oil on my daily driver once a month... $60 a month gets old QUICK

It's not about breakdown of the oil from the heat anyway, it's about how thin it gets. Yes better oil helps, but you're still going to need to change it often when it's getting that hot. Just spend the $500 to add an oil cooler and it'll pay for itself in a couple of years of tracking while also better protecting the engine in the meantime.



For the record, 254F in a single lap with chicanes at Monticello is pretty hot. Like barely better than the FA20 without an oil cooler... It's not like it reached thermal equilibrium in one lap so surely it was going to get hotter.

[timurrrr]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Based on what? 254F is no big deal, at all, for any decent synthetic.

Based on "this wasn't even a full lap"?

[Kona61]

Originally Posted by DocWalt

We'll have to agree to disagree, I'm not changing my oil on my daily driver once a month... $60 a month gets old QUICK

It's not about breakdown of the oil from the heat anyway, it's about how thin it gets. Yes better oil helps, but you're still going to need to change it often when it's getting that hot. Just spend the $500 to add an oil cooler and it'll pay for itself in a couple of years of tracking while also better protecting the engine in the meantime.



For the record, 254F in a single lap with chicanes at Monticello is pretty hot. Like barely better than the FA20 without an oil cooler... It's not like it reached thermal equilibrium in one lap so surely it was going to get hotter.

Those water-oil coolers don’t do much at all. In Miata land, you just stack a air-oil cooler on top of it. My NB2 has one of these.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by DocWalt

We'll have to agree to disagree, I'm not changing my oil on my daily driver once a month... $60 a month gets old QUICK

2-3 event is a rule that works for me, like I said it's probably overly conservative. I wouldn't bet on an oil cooler saving you much $$$ on oil changes if you base it on analysis of oil to determine when it is beginning to degrade. Good synthetics shouldn't be degrading at 275F.

It's not about breakdown of the oil from the heat anyway, it's about how thin it gets.

30 weight at 275F is as thick as 20 weight at 250F.
You choose viscosity based on oil temps, it's not a big deal.

Yes better oil helps, but you're still going to need to change it often when it's getting that hot. Just spend the $500 to add an oil cooler and it'll pay for itself in a couple of years of tracking while also better protecting the engine in the meantime.

I don't think an oil cooler is buying you *nearly* as much additional protection as many seem to think. Good synthetic can take MUCH higher temps, choose viscosity based on operational temps and you should be fine. Meanwhile engines have been lost due to leaking oil coolers. The risk people think they're avoiding is minimal to non-existent, while the risk they are *adding* is non-zero but this is rarely considered

For the record, 254F in a single lap with chicanes at Monticello is pretty hot. Like barely better than the FA20 without an oil cooler... It's not like it reached thermal equilibrium in one lap so surely it was going to get hotter.

Yeah, the question is at what temp it reaches equilibrium. I wouldn't jump the gun and assume that 254F in a single lap means it's going to run too hot to track it without an oil cooler, I'll be surprised if that is the case.

FWIW my '17 only gets to ~235-240F in one lap, I bet the new car's coolant/oil heat exchanger has it starting out at a higher oil temp but may have a lower equilibrium temp vs. 270F +/- a few degrees for my car.

[timurrrr]

Originally Posted by ZDan

I don't think an oil cooler is buying you *nearly* as much additional protection as many seem to think. Good synthetic can take MUCH higher temps, choose viscosity based on operational temps and you should be fine. Meanwhile engines have been lost due to leaking oil coolers. The risk people think they're avoiding is minimal to non-existent, while the risk they are *adding* is non-zero but this is rarely considered

Humans are notoriously bad at estimating risk.
Even harder to say which of two risks is actually higher.

Most people with FT86's seem to agree that the risks associated with running the oil hot is higher than mechanical risks associated with using an oil cooler.
I don't think it's rarely considered (I certainly considered it, and saw it being brought up in multiple discussions), but statistically I've heard of a lot more engines that failed due to lubrication issues than coolers failing.

[steverife]

This is a weird conversation.

The oil gets hot on these new cars.
Upgrade the oil cooler.
Nah, don't upgrade the oil cooler. Change the oil more frequently.
The oil cooler will pay for itself in the long run versus more frequent oil changes.
It won't pay for itself if you change the oil at the same frequency as without one.

What?

[new2subaru]

Originally Posted by steverife

This is a weird conversation.

The oil gets hot on these new cars.
Upgrade the oil cooler.
Nah, don't upgrade the oil cooler. Change the oil more frequently.
The oil cooler will pay for itself in the long run versus more frequent oil changes.
It won't pay for itself if you change the oil at the same frequency as without one.

What?

Eh, you can add run an oil cooler AND drop the oil every 2-3 events lol

[gen3v8]

My turbo Subis cook everything in 20 mins on warm days. My Brz sits on 106C oil and under 100C water (warm day 25C), with an oil cooler. The car needs warming up and not cooling down. Runs continuously with driver changes (Wifey and Me). Brakes run cooler Tires don`t go off easily. The car is slightly slower in PB laps and does more laps faster than the turbos without a cool down.

I change oil every 2 events or 5K of daily. 5w30 Castrol edge.

[Frost]

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/en...l-temperature/

TLDR:
"A full-synthetic oil will withstand sump temperatures in excess of 300 degrees, and for hard-core professional racing, some oval-track race teams are experimenting with ultra-thin, specially formulated, race-only synthetics operating at 350 degrees or even higher."

You're welcome.

[s30series]

Originally Posted by Frost

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/en...l-temperature/

TLDR:
"A full-synthetic oil will withstand sump temperatures in excess of 300 degrees, and for hard-core professional racing, some oval-track race teams are experimenting with ultra-thin, specially formulated, race-only synthetics operating at 350 degrees or even higher."

You're welcome.

I'm sure the FA20 & FA24 and it's bearing tolerances, oil pump, lifters, etc were designed with 300 degree plus oil temperature in mind.

[TommyW]

This "well the oil can handle it" narrative is almost comical. Heat is the enemy in almost all mechanical applications. Oil is not really even in the overall equation. Go to any track. The hoods are open to let heat out and never open because, well things are just too darn cool.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by TommyW

This "well the oil can handle it" narrative is almost comical. Heat is the enemy in almost all mechanical applications. Oil is not really even in the overall equation. Go to any track. The hoods are open to let heat out and never open because, well things are just too darn cool.

I usually leave my hood closed at the track between sessions. Coolant temps never get much above 200F on track so underhood temps shouldn't be outside design envelope. I don't open my hood after driving in stop/go traffic with the A/C on in the summer either, I'd bet underhood temps get hotter from that.