Aiming for 400whp

[Senna]

Originally Posted by DRACHENV6

I think uel headers will cost you alot of hp especially in a F.I. setup. If it is an unavoidable aspect of the design as seen in the avo kit then so be it.

Imo uel headers for the sake of the boxer rumble is just as cheesy as that sound generator on the stock intake. Both useless.

Okay then, I'm torn between a turbo kit vs vortech s/c kit with a pulley and custom tune, and fuel. and uel borla headers/exhaust.

I'll probably get it tuned by darin who was at titan.

Well screw the sound then if I go turbo, I want best spool up to power ratio, gtx series or efr ftw

[nonicname]

you'll plenty of time to make your reasearch, then in 1 year you'll get your car and you can start modding.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by DRACHENV6

I think uel headers will cost you alot of hp especially in a F.I. setup. If it is an unavoidable aspect of the design as seen in the avo kit then so be it.

Imo uel headers for the sake of the boxer rumble is just as cheesy as that sound generator on the stock intake. Both useless.

Maybe a couple WHP.. Maybe...

It will Cost you a LOT? Its a myth.... Let's stop it from spreading

[Captain Insano]

Originally Posted by JDLAutoDesign

Thank you! Our aim with the kit is to have a nice responsive street car that will perform on the track. Now that we have our ECU will get back on it after we get the exhaust pieces dyno'd

NP... I think your kit looks like it's gonna be the shizzle from what I have read so far in the thread.

[jshadeck]

Correct me if im wrong, but with FI, isnt the UEL a moot point regarding the "boxer sound", wont that be lost at the turbo? This will be my first turbo boxer, so im not speaking from experience, i come from supra knowledge

[Captain Insano]

Not necessarily. Have you ever heard a STi or WRX with a turbo back exhaust?

[DRACHENV6]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

Maybe a couple WHP.. Maybe...

It will Cost you a LOT? Its a myth.... Let's stop it from spreading

So you are saying that pulsatile flow caused by uel headers on a high flowing F.I. setup is going to cost 1-2 whp? I dont believe it.

[AVOturboworld]

Originally Posted by jshadeck

Correct me if im wrong, but with FI, isnt the UEL a moot point regarding the "boxer sound", wont that be lost at the turbo? This will be my first turbo boxer, so im not speaking from experience, i come from supra knowledge

No - exhaust is flowing through/past the exhaust blades, it doesn't stop completely at them, or even slow down that much. So the "pulses" come through quite clearly.

I think that one thing that is being lost in the big debate between UEL/EL is that that all is based on data taken from WRX's and STI's, which had a much, much longer path from exhaust port to turbocharger. This made pressure loss and pulses more important in efforts to retain spool response.

However, with the UEL setup we are using it differs drastically from those cars in that it's an incredibly short distance from exhaust ports to turbo, and the gains in response/pressure will far outweigh the gains of lengthening the exhaust manifold piping just to make it equal length.

[FreshFRS]

Originally Posted by DRACHENV6

So you are saying that pulsatile flow caused by uel headers on a high flowing F.I. setup is going to cost 1-2 whp? I dont believe it.

i've seen STI's switch from UEL to EL and pick up 20lb/ft + 25whp at the same boost pressure (18psi in this case). from an airflow standpoint UEL doesn't make to much sense. equal length, will smooth out and allow the pulses to flow uniformly aiding spool and response. IIRC with the same turbo the EL started to spool ~2-300rpm faster (rotated GT35R .82 hotside) with a PWR Air/Water barrel (very short piping route with both set ups) He swapped that out for EL twin scroll at 1.0A/R and it spooled even faster.

Avo does make a good point for it's turbo system though i cant deny that. but say D3 would benefit from EL vs. UEL

[Tansey86]

Originally Posted by FreshFRS

i've seen STI's switch from UEL to EL and pick up 20lb/ft + 25whp at the same boost pressure (18psi in this case). from an airflow standpoint UEL doesn't make to much sense. equal length, will smooth out and allow the pulses to flow uniformly aiding spool and response. IIRC with the same turbo the EL started to spool ~2-300rpm faster (rotated GT35R .82 hotside) with a PWR Air/Water barrel (very short piping route with both set ups) He swapped that out for EL twin scroll at 1.0A/R and it spooled even faster.

Avo does make a good point for it's turbo system though i cant deny that. but say D3 would benefit from EL vs. UEL

I rather have UEL with avo's turbo placement than EL with D3's, subbies have had such problems because of where the turbo is located, plus the sound is nice. Nothing a few PSI cant fix in regards to power.

[Supermassive]

With the time you have to decide on what you want, there will be more experience regarding lower compression engines in this car and how much boost is required to pump out the numbers you want from pump gas. If you have E85 available there are setups already hitting 400+ relatively reliably. Hell in a year you might now even want a BRZ because something else might come out from Nissan or maybe even mazda...I doubt Honda will do anything exciting as far as competition for the twins, they still need the new NSX to launch...just as overhyped as the original, if not more.

[FreshFRS]

Originally Posted by Tansey86

I rather have UEL with avo's turbo placement than EL with D3's, subbies have had such problems because of where the turbo is located, plus the sound is nice. Nothing a few PSI cant fix in regards to power.

true shorter exhaust runners means better spool. however, if i was to go turbo (which i doubt i will Rotrex C38-91 or Eaton TVS1320 FTW) i would do D3" using JDL's EL header. a custom intake (with about a 700hp Garret A/W intercooler core) so my piping route is only as long as it has to be for proper MAF readings and throttle skewed to the side for a fairly straight pipe. A fully water-cooled turbo (Comp CT3 5862) to avoid having to run oil lines.

More power from less boost would be better for our FA20 with sky high compression, no? Especially for us guys that can't run E-85. 94 is all i get here good gas but doesn't take timing like e-85 would.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by FreshFRS

true shorter exhaust runners means better spool. however, if i was to go turbo (which i doubt i will Rotrex C38-91 or Eaton TVS1320 FTW) i would do D3" using JDL's EL header. a custom intake (with about a 700hp Garret A/W intercooler core) so my piping route is only as long as it has to be for proper MAF readings and throttle skewed to the side for a fairly straight pipe. A fully water-cooled turbo (Comp CT3 5862) to avoid having to run oil lines.

More power from less boost would be better for our FA20 with sky high compression, no? Especially for us guys that can't run E-85. 94 is all i get here good gas but doesn't take timing like e-85 would.

If you have a good A/W intercooler you could possibly gain more efficiency by using gigantic intake cams to increase boost pressure but decrease dynamic compression. Higher manifold pressure means the intercooler sheds more heat and you get denser charge. Of course the supercharger power consumption has to be taken into account but I think at higher boost levels the cooler temperature should help more, especially with high compression ratio engine where the extra heat and pressure affects things more.

[FreshFRS]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

If you have a good A/W intercooler you could possibly gain more efficiency by using gigantic intake cams to increase boost pressure but decrease dynamic compression. Higher manifold pressure means the intercooler sheds more heat and you get denser charge. Of course the supercharger power consumption has to be taken into account but I think at higher boost levels the cooler temperature should help more, especially with high compression ratio engine where the extra heat and pressure affects things more.

Good points, i was basing off the engine being totally stock though, IF ECUTEK can figure out how to tune AVCS this could be really feasible with stock cams.

supercharger is my plan as i like throttle response over bigger dyno numbers. A rotrex C38-91 mounted between the A/C and alternator (flip HKS's design) and the stock intake manifold (with A/W integrated somehow) raised up (with custom pieces moulded to lengthen from the top of the inject placement to the bend to keep factory contours) as high as i need to run an intake duct under it routed the same way as Innovates supercharger (with a wider, shorter section under the actual manifold for consistent airflow. it would be only a custom silicon elbow from supercharger to throttle body. tuned at say 9psi (spinning about 65kRPM at redline) would be perfect IMHO :happy0180: