... vs. Mazdaspeed 3 || Drift wars!? Duh efffff?

[fatoni]

these ridiculous subtleties make people seem pretentious. the only difference between fwd and rwd is where the power goes. so if you believe that only rwd cars can drift then you are automatically writing off about half of the catalog of drift techniques that people can use. i fail to see how if a 240sx driver used a feint or inertia to initiate a drift people consider that one of the more advanced techniques but if the same thing happens in a civic its a tasteless imitation of real talent.

[chas3wba0]

Originally Posted by 1086

I feel this is getting a little too serious haha but honestly I am sorry... using your e-brake to break traction and slide is still drifting. If you think otherwise... then no one will convince you

"Drifting is a technique where the driver intentionally or unintentionally oversteers causing loss of traction in the rear wheels or all tires, while maintaining control from entry to exit of a corner."

For example, please watch as these drivers don't use their e-brake to not drift... particularly at 0:48 sec. Watch as that noob shreds in his RWD car with all his non-drifting, e-braking skills.

e-braking is just another technique, get over yourselves.

Okay, fine. So the term has become more lax as of late, I can live with that. But if you think about the physics involved... FWD "drifting" just seems impractical. Much more efficient to be smoking the entire circumferences of your rear tires rather than just patches at a time

[1086]

Yeah I am not saying its better. My title itself is a little ridiculous anyways lol It wasn't meant to be serious I just thought it looked nice for what it was, a turbo FWD hatchback - made it look clean that is all.

[ZDan]

You can initiate a drift withe the e-brake on a fwd car, but you can never hold the back end out while accelerating. That is the essence and the fun of it. Semi-equivalent fwd vs. rwd in a drifting competition just isn't done because fwd just isn't physically capable of holding the back end out on while on the power.

Fwd is inherently different from rwd. "Where the power goes" is a HUGE difference, a FUNDAMENTAL difference. In any kind of motorsport activity, but *particularly* in drifting.

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by chas3wba0

They pulled it off pretty well... but it's still just an e-brake slide ^_^

Could be left foot braking? I think I see the brake lights flash as the left rear wheel locks briefly. Scandinavian rally drivers invented this technique to position the fwd cars for tight corners. The Scandi flick was also invented to assist in this.

Technically a drift requires all four tires to be sliding. If the rear wheels only are sliding that's just garden variety oversteer. Understeer if only the front tires are sliding. Of course tires don't have to be fully sliding for a car to under or oversteer.

"Drifting" as a sport is a newer connotation of a word invented to describe high speed driving in the era before racing tires became very specialized.

Drifting is no longer done in racing on Tarmac because it is slow. Drifting is still seen in rally cars bit it too is slow unless a drift is required to set a car up for a corner exit, particularly on loose traction surfaces. It isn't often used on Tarmac stages because it is so slow. When tires were poor, power to weight ratios were poor and cornering grip very limited a four wheel drift was the only way yo be quick around a race track. No longer the case, drifting is a super slow way to corner, even on modern street tires with low powered street cars.

As a spectator sport drifting is unaccountably popular. The figure skating of the automotive world. That type of drift has no place in high performance driving on public roads and is rare in competition outside rally stages.

[kuhlka]

Originally Posted by Suberman

Could be left foot braking? I think I see the brake lights flash as the left rear wheel locks briefly. Scandinavian rally drivers invented this technique to position the fwd cars for tight corners. The Scandi flick was also invented to assist in this.

Technically a drift requires all four tires to be sliding. If the rear wheels only are sliding that's just garden variety oversteer. Understeer if only the front tires are sliding. Of course tires don't have to be fully sliding for a car to under or oversteer.

"Drifting" as a sport is a newer connotation of a word invented to describe high speed driving in the era before racing tires became very specialized.

Drifting is no longer done in racing on Tarmac because it is slow. Drifting is still seen in rally cars bit it too is slow unless a drift is required to set a car up for a corner exit, particularly on loose traction surfaces. It isn't often used on Tarmac stages because it is so slow. When tires were poor, power to weight ratios were poor and cornering grip very limited a four wheel drift was the only way yo be quick around a race track. No longer the case, drifting is a super slow way to corner, even on modern street tires with low powered street cars.

As a spectator sport drifting is unaccountably popular. The figure skating of the automotive world. That type of drift has no place in high performance driving on public roads and is rare in competition outside rally stages.

Drifting (e-brake) can be used on tarmac to go faster when you don't have the turning radius to whip the car around a hairpin fast enough. Otherwise, you're correct about drifting.

Spinning wheels = traction that could have been used to go faster.

[bcj]

Originally Posted by Suberman

The figure skating of the automotive world.

Interpretive dance with props.

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by kuhlka

Drifting (e-brake) can be used on tarmac to go faster when you don't have the turning radius to whip the car around a hairpin fast enough. Otherwise, you're correct about drifting.

Spinning wheels = traction that could have been used to go faster.

To a point and depends on tires and car design. Even in a hairpin when you're on good grip road surface the vast majority of the time the quickest way round is in the correct gear with no wheelspin.

Significantly no modern F1 car is ever drifted, ever, for any reason. Anytime you see it a driver has made a big mistake and his lap time suffers. As recently as the 80's guys like Villeneuve could be faster sideways than without wheelspin. That's how far tire technology has come. That's why Subaru fits lousy tires to our cars.

Having said that, on lower grip surfaces where you have more torque than you can use, turning the car with oversteer or a bit of drift can be useful and even a safe driving technique. This is the real point. If the tires can't put down all the engine torque available then a drift can work, otherwise you're just wasting forward drive.

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by Suberman

Technically a drift requires all four tires to be sliding.

*citation needed*

[kuhlka]

Originally Posted by Suberman

To a point and depends on tires and car design. Even in a hairpin when you're on good grip road surface the vast majority of the time the quickest way round is in the correct gear with no wheelspin.

Significantly no modern F1 car is ever drifted, ever, for any reason. Anytime you see it a driver has made a big mistake and his lap time suffers. As recently as the 80's guys like Villeneuve could be faster sideways than without wheelspin. That's how far tire technology has come. That's why Subaru fits lousy tires to our cars.

Having said that, on lower grip surfaces where you have more torque than you can use, turning the car with oversteer or a bit of drift can be useful and even a safe driving technique. This is the real point. If the tires can't put down all the engine torque available then a drift can work, otherwise you're just wasting forward drive.

I guess what I was referring to would be a 'handbrake turn' rather than drifting because it's intended to swing the car around quicker, rather than spin the tires wildly in a big slide. Even rally guys do it around hairpins on clean asphalt because the production cars don't have the turning radius and ridiculously low weight to hook it as fast as a formula 1 car.

[norsamerican]

Thats a powerslide. Grab e brake at point where weight of car is off balance. That car could not transition instantly to another drift because he dropped from about 40 miles an hour to 10 not to mention it didnt even finish making the turn.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by norsamerican

Thats a powerslide. Grab e brake at point where weight of car is off balance. That car could not transition instantly to another drift because he dropped from about 40 miles an hour to 10 not to mention it didnt even finish making the turn.

its been brought up before but why dont you think a powerslide is done under power?

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by fatoni

its been brought up before but why dont you think a powerslide is done under power?

Technically a drift requires all four wheels to be sliding. This can be a power slide only if you have full time awd.

You initiated a drift with a power slide.

If your front wheels aren't also sliding it remains just a power slide.

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by chrisl

*citation needed*

Why don't you go find it. Google got you down?