$1300 to repair FRS for bad gas, does that sound right?

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by pauldz

The tank was 1/4 full when I stopped at the station and I only pumped $5 of gas, which moved the needle to just under 1/2.

I doubt 5 dollars of diesel would cause the issues youre describing. That's like 1.5 gallons mixed with 5-6 of premium.

[Brink]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

I doubt 5 dollars of diesel would cause the issues youre describing. That's like 1.5 gallons mixed with 5-6 of premium.

Judging by the needle it was probably around 2-3 gallons of diesel with about 3 gallons of premium. 5 dollars of diesel isn't the same amount of fuel everywhere.

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by Brink

Judging by the needle it was probably around 2-3 gallons of diesel with about 3 gallons of premium. 5 dollars of diesel isn't the same amount of fuel everywhere.

Sure, but I have not seen diesel be "cheap" for a long time now. It's always around the same as regular it seems like, maybe slightly above.

[dutchman1]

It sounds to me like they're actually trying to do a thorough job of decontaminating the fuel system and making sure there are no lingering issues (or any serious ones from injecting imcombustable material into a high compression engine), rather than shortcutting it and hoping for the best.

And yea it's somewhat labor intensive. That said, unbolting the mounts and jacking the engine up a bit isn't super difficult or time consuming it you have ready access to lifts and jacks in a shop with all your tools sitting within arms reach. Sure fiddling around with extensions to get the spark plugs out might make more sense in your driveway, but if you have the equipment that may change.

[pauldz]

No one has covered any part of the bill.

I heard back from the state inspector today. He found no problem with the gas and said no one else had complained.

[Anthonyc77]

$5 in gas if you have a 1/4 tank shouldn't be enough to really do anything unless it was straight water which sounds highly unlikely. Even if it was diesel it should still start and even run a little bit. 5th gear did a test where they put diesel into an almost empty tank and the car still started up, drove for a couple miles before misfiring and stuttering. They emptied out the diesel, put in normal gas and the car started up and was fine again.

Sounds like your no start issue might not be fuel related at all and your dealership is taking you for a ride...

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GL9-i9tcESU"]Putting Petrol Into A Diesel Car #TBT - Fifth Gear - YouTube[/ame]

[finch1750]

Originally Posted by pauldz

No one has covered any part of the bill.

I heard back from the state inspector today. He found no problem with the gas and said no one else had complained.

I would then find a different shop and/or escalate to Toyota corporate. Get everything form the dealership and the state inspector in writing.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by pauldz

No one has covered any part of the bill.

I heard back from the state inspector today. He found no problem with the gas and said no one else had complained.

So, has the work been done .....??

If so, who has the bill ... ?? or has it been paid..??

Ya, know, pauldz ....... I just got this feeling there is a ...... "the rest of the story" .....




humfrz

[pauldz]

The work was done and I paid the bill. Apparently that's the end of the story. Don't think I can make a claim against the gas station since the inspector found no bad gas. Guess I could complain to Toyota, although it seems unlikely they will do anything.

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by pauldz

The work was done and I paid the bill. Apparently that's the end of the story. Don't think I can make a claim against the gas station since the inspector found no bad gas. Guess I could complain to Toyota, although it seems unlikely they will do anything.

Hate to hear someone getting taken for a ride like that!

Could you post up the invoice? See what they actually "did."

[pauldz]

The car had to be towed in and it left the shop in working order, so I'm not sure I was taken for a ride. Something was fouling my fuel line, only question is whether they did more than was necessary to fix the issue. They gave me the old spark plugs and a sample of the gas. Invoice says: "Technician found that the fuel is contaminated causing the car to shut off. Drained fuel and cleaned fuel tank." Labor $1121.85, parts $161.59, misc. charges $25.00, tax $78.51, total $1386.95.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by pauldz

The work was done and I paid the bill. Apparently that's the end of the story. Don't think I can make a claim against the gas station since the inspector found no bad gas. Guess I could complain to Toyota, although it seems unlikely they will do anything.

Well, at least you got a new set of spark plugs out of the ordeal.

I'd steer clear of that gas station from now on.

Good to hear you're back on the road ......


humfrz

[Trollhart]

I guess legally you may be out of luck here - unless you still have some of the gas left and you are willing to pay several thousand Dollars for an in-depth Analysis at an Independent laboratory, with an unknown result.


However I do have a suspicion how all this talk of diesel/non-diesel and "bad fuel" might have come about. Some backstory:




I am regularly ordering large deliveries of marine fuel in your area.
Since we are speaking of several thousand metric tonnes per delivery,
there are representative samples taken, which are then analyzed in an independent laboratory like SGS, Inspectorate, ect.


Think of it like a Blackstone labs oil analysis, just with more parameters.


So, what is happening since a few months is that we are experiencing random problems during burning of These fuels, even though the regular analyses are completely okay.


So far, this happened with fuels taken in the area around Florida, as well as New York and Balboa.


Enter the gas-chromatographic/mass-spectrometic analysis on vacuum distillation (basically ripping the fuel apart into ist very contents on a molecular level, and quantifying the contents, for some 15.000 dollars a shot):


Turns out that most of the oil majors started increasing the FAME (Fatty Acid Methyl Esters) content in all of their fuels (marine fuels, consumer gasoline, industrial blends, ...), right in the refineries.




In one case, the German air force even had to detain their jets because this stuff was found to be present in the jet fuel (delivered via a NATO pipeline...).


FAME is basically a mixture of fat and alcohol, typically found in bio-derived fuels, like bio-diesel.
It is cheaper to produce than oil-based products and does not originate from the regular cracking-processes in refineries.


Legally, they are allowed to do this (as long as they sell their stuff as per ISO specifications like ISO8217), but the more of this stuff is mixed in, the more likely we have found catastrophic engine failure to be.
Does not matter if we are talking about 2-stroke or 4-stroke engines, diesel or gasoline.


If there is enough FAME-content in a fuel batch, some automated testing methods may even mistake this blend as diesel instead of petrol/gasoline.


What we have seen so far is laquering of the fuel System components (high pressure fuel pumps, fuel lines, filters) as well as loss of cylinder lubrication due to the high alcohol content, and extensive wear on all effected components until the point of catastrophie failure.




Sorry for the wall of text, this just came to my mind, as I have had this interesting discussion last week with the Chief chemist at SGS.




Maybe you can have a look at the internals of the replaced fuel pump?
If it does look clogged up, or it was painted with shiny enamel, you might have something to support this theory.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by Trollhart

.

We need a second "more thanks" button.