Twins are slow? Not as slow as these cars!

[DohcTor]

ITT: Twin owners continue to try and convince themselves that their motor isn't underwhelming

[babydriver]

[quote=mav1178;2052362]

Originally Posted by babydriver

There is no question in my mind that the weak link in the handling is the stock tire. I don't expect to get too many people to disagree with that point on this forum. The rear tires seem to break loose all the time in sharp cornering with throttle applied.
/QUOTE]

I'm going to disagree with you on the weak link comment, because the weak link in the handling is most certainly not the tires, it's the differential.

Just because you can break loose tires in the corners with throttle doesn't make it a bad tire, it just means your driving style is too aggressive for the tires given the steering and throttle inputs you are making.

Sorry, these "weak-link" tires run 5 seconds faster than my modified, "better tire" car at Streets of Willow. Primacy HPs are great tires.

-alex

Not a problem! I enjoy a spirited debate. With that in mind, check out this article from Road and Track concerning times with the Primacy vs. the Dunlop Direzza. It is clear that in every respect (in this trial) the Dunlop did better than the Primacy:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...ransformation/

[babydriver]

Originally Posted by DohcTor

ITT: Twin owners continue to try and convince themselves that their motor isn't underwhelming

It's not a question of power, it's a question of balance. I am certain that a Ford GT, driven by nearly anyone, would beat the pants off most sports cars on an oval track or the Big Willow. At the very least, the time for the Streets of Willow is not that different from the FR-S or BRZ. Certainly within the margin of error. But these are supposedly fastest times at that track for each car.

I have enough sense not to go drag racing in the FR-S. I have beaten the pants off a Z4 on a windy canyon road, though, although again you could of course blame the driver of the Z4.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by babydriver

It's not a question of power, it's a question of balance. I am certain that a Ford GT, driven by nearly anyone, would beat the pants off most sports cars on an oval track or the Big Willow. At the very least, the time for the Streets of Willow is not that different from the FR-S or BRZ. Certainly within the margin of error. But these are supposedly fastest times at that track for each car.

I have enough sense not to go drag racing in the FR-S. I have beaten the pants off a Z4 on a windy canyon road, though, although again you could of course blame the driver of the Z4.

The problem with the times you posted is you have professional race car driver Randy Pobst in the Twins, and <unknown> driver in the Ford GT. I'm pretty sure if Pobst was driving the Ford GT, it would have obliterated the times set by the Twins, even on SOW.

On the track, I've also passed a Z4 coupe (and C6Z, M3, ZL1 Camaro, Maserati, and countless other cars I shouldn't have passed), but I can guarantee you the reason was the driver:

[babydriver]

Here's another group of times, these from Top Gear, most with the Stig, but a few with Vettel and Hamilton. The GT 86 is number 153 on the list:

http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/top_gear_track.html

Some cars that were slower than the GT 86 on this track:

Nissan 350Z
Mazda RX-8
BMW M5
BMW M3
Lotus Esprit
Audi TT 3.2 Quattro
Mercedes SLK 350
Jaguar XKR
Lotus Elise
Porsche 986 Boxster
BMW Z4 3.0i
Honda S2000
Maserati Coupe Cambiocorsa
Alfa Romeo 8C Competizione
Porsche 944
Porsche 928
Aston Martin DB5
Mini Cooper (dead last on this list) - Richard Hammond

All were driven by the Stig on the same course except as noted above. That removes the variable of the driver completely (except for the Mini Cooper). It should be noted that the Ford GT did considerably better in the hands of the Stig, finishing 45th on the list, well ahead of the GT-86.

[tahdizzle]

[quote=mav1178;2052362]

Originally Posted by babydriver

There is no question in my mind that the weak link in the handling is the stock tire. I don't expect to get too many people to disagree with that point on this forum. The rear tires seem to break loose all the time in sharp cornering with throttle applied.
/QUOTE]

I'm going to disagree with you on the weak link comment, because the weak link in the handling is most certainly not the tires, it's the differential.

Just because you can break loose tires in the corners with throttle doesn't make it a bad tire, it just means your driving style is too aggressive for the tires given the steering and throttle inputs you are making.

Sorry, these "weak-link" tires run 5 seconds faster than my modified, "better tire" car at Streets of Willow. Primacy HPs are great tires.

-alex

I don't disagree with you on the tires. I think Primacy HPs are great tires too, for all intents and purposes. Do I think they are a track tire, No. They are a good tire though.

I would like some clarification on the differential statement though. I find that the differential does exactly what a Torque biased differential should be doing.

I think the weak link in the twins is the space behind the steering wheel.

[totopo]

Originally Posted by babydriver

Here's another group of times, these from Top Gear, most with the Stig, but a few with Vettel and Hamilton. The GT 86 is number 153 on the list:

http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/top_gear_track.html

Some cars that were slower than the GT 86 on this track:

Nissan 350Z
Mazda RX-8
BMW M5
BMW M3
Lotus Esprit
Audi TT 3.2 Quattro
Mercedes SLK 350
Jaguar XKR
Lotus Elise
Porsche 986 Boxster
BMW Z4 3.0i
Honda S2000
Maserati Coupe Cambiocorsa
Alfa Romeo 8C Competizione
Porsche 944
Porsche 928
Aston Martin DB5
Mini Cooper (dead last on this list) - Richard Hammond

All were driven by the Stig on the same course except as noted above. That removes the variable of the driver completely (except for the Mini Cooper). It should be noted that the Ford GT did considerably better in the hands of the Stig, finishing 45th on the list, well ahead of the GT-86.

The w after the time means wet. And the vw is very wet

[babydriver]

[quote=tahdizzle;2052598]

Originally Posted by mav1178

I don't disagree with you on the tires. I think Primacy HPs are great tires too, for all intents and purposes. Do I think they are a track tire, No. They are a good tire though.

I would like some clarification on the differential statement though. I find that the differential does exactly what a Torque biased differential should be doing.

I think the weak link in the twins is the space behind the steering wheel.

Definitely! You've probably heard the IT term "PEBCAK" - "problem exists between chair and keyboard". I guess here the term would be "PEBSAW"? (Problem exists between seat and wheel).

[Tcoat]

[quote=babydriver;2052697]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

Definitely! You've probably heard the IT term "PEBCAK" - "problem exists between chair and keyboard". I guess here the term would be "PEBSAW"? (Problem exists between seat and wheel).

Annnnnd an inside joke between the people that actually read all the posts in a thread was just invented!

I can envision a pile of responses of "PEBSAW" in our future.

[babydriver]

Originally Posted by totopo

The w after the time means wet. And the vw is very wet

Thanks for that! So the cars affected from the list above would be the Mercedes SLK and the Lotus Elise, all others were on a dry track.

[fatoni]

That website isn't very credible.

[babydriver]

Originally Posted by fatoni

That website isn't very credible.

OK, fine. Please provide a credible one.

[babydriver]

Wikipedia provides a list of times from Top Gear along with conditions. The GT 86 run was listed as "partly wet". So if not partly wet, the time would have been faster. (Listed time: 1:31.3 seconds, 1.75 mile track.)


[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Top_Gear_test_track_Power_Lap_Times"]List of Top Gear test track Power Lap Times - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

(These appear to be the same times as on fastestlaps.com)

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by babydriver

Thanks for that! So the cars affected from the list above would be the Mercedes SLK and the Lotus Elise, all others were on a dry track.

To nit-pick just a bit more, there's also been some debate about whether new Stig is faster than old Stig.

But generally I agree, the list of Top Gear track times is much more credible than the first SOW list you posted. Same publication, same methodology, generally same driver, all professional drivers, etc.

If you'll notice, there are also less surprises to be found on that list (i.e., you don't see the Twins beating a Z06, Ford GT, 911 Turbo, M5, etc)