Forced Induction Buyer's Guide | $5,000 +/- (otd) | Daily Driver Spec

[SmsAlSuwaidi]

Originally Posted by jamesm

sure. my first upgrade after the turbo was a j2 catless front pipe, which was the only one bigger than 2.5" available at the time. it helped spool a bit, but wasn't that dramatic. next came the motiv overpipe, which aside from being beautiful didn't really do anything at all. lastly i added the perrin 3", and the everything changed. it was like a whole new car. spool was faster, noticeably more power. it seems from my experience that the exhaust mods really don't do much until you get rid of all the stock bits and free it up. kinda makes sense when you think about it.

Thats great to hear * i guess i did the right thing buying a 3" turbo back


Sent from my IBrick

[nelsmar]

Originally Posted by jamesm

true you could always log boost.. but i've definitely had a wastegate line pop off and without a gauge, my motor would've blown up. it can happen, and gauges are cheap. zip ties and hose clamps are also cheap insurance, perhaps replacing said boost gauge once everything is dialed in lol.

Yeahhhh I think we have all had that happen before we learned that zip ties may look like shit but serve a massive purpose. I had something similar happen a long time ago haha.

[cdrazic93]

Originally Posted by nelsmar

we learned that zip ties may look like shit but...

they can come in black


BTW this thread is like gold for anyone who wants to go FI with a stock car and are looking at how much they have to save/spend, loan or whatever...should this progress any further I think we should think about making this into a possible sticky

[1086]

Nice Idea @cdrazic93 . Perhaps this might help with some advancements in giving a more solid framework for people and what to consider in an overall build i.e. the FI kit + all necessary accessories.

That being said @jamesm and @CSG Mike ...

Given my somewhat loose parameters - would you mind posting your hypothetical/suggested $5,000-$6,000 FI build for us when you get the chance?

[cdrazic93]

Originally Posted by 1086

Given my somewhat loose parameters - would you mind posting your hypothetical/suggested $5,000-$6,000 FI build for us when you get the chance?

Since I'm no great 86 guru like james or CSG Mike, I would put my kit (as far as I'm concerned with what I have read) as:

FBM Stage 1 base turbo kit $5,195 Includes:
GT2871R +$500 - alot of people on the forum have said this is a fun little turbo that will more than suit your needs without providing large amounts of lag
ECUTek Cable/License +$700 - goes along with the DIY tuning part, self explanatory.

FBM complete oil cooler kit $649 - personally, if I am going to turbo this car, I would like to have more than 1 or 2 rips at the tires without the oil spouting like a fire hose from the engine.
AEM AFR 30 - 4100 gauge $163 - see the problem before it happens. Im not sure why kits don't come with these to begin with...
AEM Boost 30-4350 gauge $284 - ^

DIY Install (personally, I would find someone who is either just as mechanically inclined as me, or more so to help with the process, to make myself feel better)
DIY tune (@jamesm) it is possible, although I am not aware of how sharp the learning curve is, to learn how to tune.

Out the door price:
$6,291.01

While that may be a bit high due to the name brand expensive gauges (its $5,844 w/out those AEM gauges)
I would rather pay for quality rather than keeping within my budget.
I have been thinking about possible kits and pricing for a long while now; if I have forgotten anything that would be vital to the kit reliability wise, feel free to tell me as I would also like to factor that in when considering a kit and supporting mod itinerary.

This goes without saying that a separate budget, if need be, should be on stand by to purchase a new engine; if a piston melts, a rod is thrown, cam timing is off, etc.

[jamesm]

If I were trying to get out the door for $5-6k, I'd get full blown's base kit, boost/afr gauge, an ecutek racerom package, whatever tools I need/don't have for the install and some dyno time. Spend whatever is left on a clutch if possible, or just keep the boost low until I could get one.

If you're not comfortable doing the tune id find a local tuner with experience tuning FI 86s, or drive to one if I had to. Stay far, far away from e-tunes (some may disagree, but that's just my advice based on what I've seen).

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by 1086

Nice Idea @cdrazic93 . Perhaps this might help with some advancements in giving a more solid framework for people and what to consider in an overall build i.e. the FI kit + all necessary accessories.

That being said @jamesm and @CSG Mike ...

Given my somewhat loose parameters - would you mind posting your hypothetical/suggested $5,000-$6,000 FI build for us when you get the chance?

I like things that can sustain power under heavy use. All these turbo setups are great for short street pulls, but I challenge any of you guys to bring the car and see if it can survive a 20 minute session on track in the California desert, or some canyon runs at night. How much power will it be making after 15 seconds of heat soaking? 30 seconds? 5 minutes? If a LSx can sustain power delivery, a boosted setup for the FA20 better be able to do it too.

This car was around 380hp, and can run until it runs out of fuel without breaking things or losing power. Or cooking the brakes. It's not a FRS or BRZ, but I'd like to see FI for the FA20 get to this level.

[cdrazic93]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I like things that can sustain power under heavy use. All these turbo setups are great for short street pulls, but I challenge any of you guys to bring the car and see if it can survive a 20 minute session on track in the California desert, or some canyon runs at night. How much power will it be making after 15 seconds of heat soaking? 30 seconds? 5 minutes? If a LSx can sustain power delivery, a boosted setup for the FA20 better be able to do it too.

This car was around 380hp, and can run until it runs out of fuel without breaking things or losing power. Or cooking the brakes. It's not a FRS or BRZ, but I'd like to see FI for the FA20 get to this level.

I believe it to be possible for a boosted FA20 to get to that level all day long, the only problem to worry about would be cooling. The aim would be to use cooling systems designed for higher hp purposes than a 400 whp FA20. An aftermarket vented hood can pull away some engine bay heat, while the oil cooler and inter cooler, along with turbo blanket and ceramic coating would do some good.

The premium stage 1 kit from FBM fully optioned out does all this, minus the oil cooling kit. The bad part is that fully optioned out the kit is $10 above $8k shockingly, the premium stage 1 with GTX3076 is the same price as stage 2...fully optioned out the only difference is stage 2 comes with the GTX35

stock brakes on the other hand...I' not too sure about.

Its amazing how the FA20, who's cast internals and total output rated 40 hp less to the crank than the f20/f22 are still comparable in terms of strength and power gains. Subaru really out did themselves with this new engine.

[hmong337]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I like things that can sustain power under heavy use. All these turbo setups are great for short street pulls, but I challenge any of you guys to bring the car and see if it can survive a 20 minute session on track in the California desert, or some canyon runs at night. How much power will it be making after 15 seconds of heat soaking? 30 seconds? 5 minutes? If a LSx can sustain power delivery, a boosted setup for the FA20 better be able to do it too.

This car was around 380hp, and can run until it runs out of fuel without breaking things or losing power. Or cooking the brakes. It's not a FRS or BRZ, but I'd like to see FI for the FA20 get to this level.

The stock fa20 will never come close to those power levels sustainably. With its ”built to cost” materials and very high compression, I can't see the stock motor holding anything more than 280whp session after session. Just out of fear, I'd probably keep it more around 260whp and not have to worry about the motor shitting itself. Sadly, if you want any sort of real lasting power out of this car, a short block is required. ...$5k+++ additional on top of the turbo kit and all the cooling mods you need. Pretty much doesn't make the FRS look like a good deal

But for a car with a base price of $25k new, I feel it’s formidable. It'd be another $25k in mods to get you to high end sports car performance like Porsche or Corvette so I'd say like $50k when all said and done including the car. Not too bad IMO. Better than buying a Focus ST or a Honda Si for $25k then dumping another $25k into them- still ending with only a grocery getter when all said and done (albeit, an insanly fast one!).

My unicorn and what I aspire my FRS to be like is the Crawford BRZ. That car, if built today, I'm guessing would probably be close to my $50k estimate. I'm certain Crawford spent lots more than that developing it.

[Mikem53]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I'd recommend adding an engine oil cooler

Reminds me of an old saying....

"To finish first, first you must finish"

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by cdrazic93

I believe it to be possible for a boosted FA20 to get to that level all day long, the only problem to worry about would be cooling. The aim would be to use cooling systems designed for higher hp purposes than a 400 whp FA20. An aftermarket vented hood can pull away some engine bay heat, while the oil cooler and inter cooler, along with turbo blanket and ceramic coating would do some good.

The premium stage 1 kit from FBM fully optioned out does all this, minus the oil cooling kit. The bad part is that fully optioned out the kit is $10 above $8k shockingly, the premium stage 1 with GTX3076 is the same price as stage 2...fully optioned out the only difference is stage 2 comes with the GTX35

stock brakes on the other hand...I' not too sure about.

Its amazing how the FA20, who's cast internals and total output rated 40 hp less to the crank than the f20/f22 are still comparable in terms of strength and power gains. Subaru really out did themselves with this new engine.

It's already been done, and the power does not last.

Look at where the exhaust leaves the turbo, and where the charge pipe is. Now imagine driving hard, and having a glowing red hot (1400F+) exhaust pipe inches away from that charge pipe that is already supplying air hotter than ambient (100F+).

The coating/wrapping isn't enough to shield that for extended periods of time. Eventually, they get hot too.

[ZionsWrath]

From all my arbitrary calculations I would need at least 10k to have an FI car that I can take to the track. My plan is to add and oil cooler and BBK and track it otherwise stock and see how I like it. Then decide if I want to go all the way with FI.

For the street I find stock to be fine. I love driving fast but I don't race people.

[ZionsWrath]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

It's already been done, and the power does not last.

Look at where the exhaust leaves the turbo, and where the charge pipe is. Now imagine driving hard, and having a glowing red hot (1400F+) exhaust pipe inches away from that charge pipe that is already supplying air hotter than ambient (100F+).

The coating/wrapping isn't enough to shield that for extended periods of time. Eventually, they get hot too.

What think about AVO? What would be the best option to increase power to hang with the higher horsepower (relative to our stock 200) cars at the track?

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

It's already been done, and the power does not last.

Look at where the exhaust leaves the turbo, and where the charge pipe is. Now imagine driving hard, and having a glowing red hot (1400F+) exhaust pipe inches away from that charge pipe that is already supplying air hotter than ambient (100F+).

The coating/wrapping isn't enough to shield that for extended periods of time. Eventually, they get hot too.

I'm a big advocate for FI in this car, hell I've done it and added everything needed to track it. BBK, Oil cooler, bigger Rad, heat wrapping, great tires, etc....

AND I Agree 100% with you. I would not track my car as it sits right now for extended periods of time and/or hard. I am sure it will not last.

I would only track this car IF I had a built motor and several other cooling methods installed (vented hood, working side fenders, modified bumper for more airflow, etc..). And even then I would be a least a bit concerned.