When will we get some "official" news on engine

[old greg]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

The FB16 should be 50lbs lighter than the FB20

Unpossible. I'd be absolutely shocked if it was even 5 lbs lighter. The FB16 will be an FB20 with thicker cylinder walls and/or a shorter stroke crank. Odds are it will be the former, and even if it were exclusively the latter the FB20 crankshaft will only weigh ~20 lbs to begin with.

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

I guess that depends if you finance through Toyota/Scion or go through your local bank/credit union. Some dealerships make more on the finance end of the deal than the actual sale of the car itself. If they get paid by you through cash or a bank/finance company they really don't care. They get paid in the end. If you finance through them they will make a few percentage points off of you depending on the loan amount and length. They can always repossess your car if you don't make good on the loan, so I'm not sure they are worried about the risk. Money now = more important to them.

Health insurance isn't a good analogy as it is more complex and not as straightforward as the goods driven market. I work in health care and can tell you that uninsured people tend to pay quite a bit more than those who are in an HMO/PPO. The HMO/PPO is able to work out group discounting/rates that the average person is unable to do. Now if you go into medical bankruptcy/unable to pay your bills, the hospital might be willing to work with you for a payment plan that ends up being less than the "cost" they billed you or just write it off. However the "cost" of medical care really isn't easy to determine as crazy as that might sound to some people not in the field.

You didn't get it...that's fine.

Originally Posted by old greg

Unpossible. I'd be absolutely shocked if it was even 5 lbs lighter. The FB16 will be an FB20 with thicker cylinder walls and/or a shorter stroke crank. Odds are it will be the former, and even if it were exclusively the latter the FB20 crankshaft will only weigh ~20 lbs to begin with.

Is that what Subaru does for their smaller displacements? That's shameful . Do you have a source? I'm actually very interested in that information.

[aliphian]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

You didn't get it...that's fine.



Is that what Subaru does for their smaller displacements? That's shameful . Do you have a source? I'm actually very interested in that information.

Isn't the FB16 supposed to be boosted to the moon? If that's the case it would make sense to give it very thick cylinder walls. I would bet on that plan.

[blur]

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

BTW. I'm pretty sure the AE86's, Miata's, EG-EK civic Si, etc. fanhoods have proven that infact, big power =/= fun.

I didnt say that. The MRS had 140 HP, while the previous generation had 220! Why do you think dimman is thinking of swappin to a 2zz . . . the car is gutless, and has much less power than those that you mentioned.

[old greg]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

Is that what Subaru does for their smaller displacements? That's shameful . Do you have a source? I'm actually very interested in that information.

It's pretty standard practice, really. Even Toyota does it, just look at the GR and UR engines. Changing the bore/stroke of an existing engine is much cheaper than developing something new from scratch. And keep in mind that Subaru is a comparatively low volume manufacturer (Toyota sells more Corollas than Subaru sells cars), yet it costs Subaru just as much to develop a new engine as anyone else. That's the reason they've been using the EJ for ~18 years now, and to be honest the FB seems to just be a modified EJ with a timing chain.

But look on the bright side. If the FT86 uses a standard FB20 shortblock with fancy Yamaha heads, you'll be able to upgrade to a 2.5L bottom end and lose a few pounds in the process.

PS: My source is 18 years of history.

[Exage]

Originally Posted by old greg

It's pretty standard practice, really. Even Toyota does it, just look at the GR and UR engines. Changing the bore/stroke of an existing engine is much cheaper than developing something new from scratch. And keep in mind that Subaru is a comparatively low volume manufacturer (Toyota sells more Corollas than Subaru sells cars), yet it costs Subaru just as much to develop a new engine as anyone else. That's the reason they've been using the EJ for ~18 years now, and to be honest the FB seems to just be a modified EJ with a timing chain.

But look on the bright side. If the FT86 uses a standard FB20 shortblock with fancy Yamaha heads, you'll be able to upgrade to a 2.5L bottom end and lose a few pounds in the process.

PS: My source is 18 years of history.

Sorry to disagree but the FB engine is very different from the EJ series.

Compare EJ25 Bore: 99.5mm Stroke: 79.0mm to the FB25 Bore: 94mm Stroke: 90mm

Fuji Heavy Industries has purposely gone from a over-square boxer to a more square boxer in the pursuit of better fuel economy (which they have achieved) (in the case of the FB20 it is under-square with a 84mm bore). The FB did incorporate the technologies of AVCS from the later EJ engines but it is however a brand new and redesigned engine down to the block, heads and internals!

With the same 90mm stroke I recon the crankshaft and connecting rods could be identical between FB20 and FB25. It might be slightly different but I've only seen one shot of the FB series connecting rod and crankshaft with no comparison shots between the two engines. It leads me to theorize that little gain if any at all would be made with a bottom end swap because they could be sharing the bottom end components.

[old greg]

Originally Posted by Exage

Sorry to disagree but the FB engine is very different from the EJ series.

We'll just have to wait and see on that one.

Originally Posted by Exage

It leads me to theorize that little gain if any at all would be made with a bottom end swap because they could be sharing the bottom end components.

I guess I should have said shortblock. Erroneous choice of words on my part.

[Exage]

Originally Posted by old greg

We'll just have to wait and see on that one. I guess I should have said shortblock. Erroneous choice of words on my part.

Fair enough. Here is Fuji's press release on the FB engine if you are interested. It goes over in better detail how the engine is somewhat different from the outgoing EJ. Better than I can explain, and it's official!

http://www.fhi.co.jp/english/news/pr...10_09_23e.html

[Allch Chcar]

I'm going to make a new thread for this, old greg, exage.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...8055#post38055

Please go there to finish this discussion. I don't want to derail yet another thread.