How many cars rate HP at the Crank? - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

jackblack21 · 10-28-2015, 12:37 PM

One thing that really bugged me was finding out that the real HP of my FR-s is about 174 not 200.

How many cars are rated by the company at the crank? I feel it's kinda fraudulent.

raven1231 · 10-28-2015, 12:37 PM

all and it's not fraudulent at all...they don't claim WHP...

kch · 10-28-2015, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackblack21

One thing that really bugged me was finding out that the real HP of my FR-s is about 174 not 200.

How many cars are rated by the company at the crank? I feel it's kinda fraudulent.

Why does the number bother you? The car still feels the same, doesn't it?

Edit: it's also a more consistent measurement of power.

raven1231 · 10-28-2015, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kch

Why does the number bother you? The car still feels the same, doesn't it?

Car club bro

Toyarzee · 10-28-2015, 12:42 PM

Must be the first car you've owned and taken note of the power rating figures. There's several good reasons they do this and it's covered in several threads... fraudulent? No...

DarkSunrise · 10-28-2015, 12:43 PM

Uhh pretty much every manufacturer? I can't think of any that advertise horsepower to the wheels.

jackblack21 · 10-28-2015, 12:44 PM

all right... if that's the standard. Seems the hp and torque at the wheel is what matters.

Toyarzee · 10-28-2015, 12:46 PM

It all matters and is all relevant, both figures tell you different stories

chaoskaze · 10-28-2015, 12:59 PM

it's call horse power war for a reason, if u are in that game you brought the wrong car.

go_a_way1 · 10-28-2015, 01:04 PM

I thought everyone knew all OEM's rated crank HP, unless they state otherwise. But lets say a camaro has 300WHP and a Stang had 310HP people will buy the Stang although the camaro makes way more power.

Fishbed77 · 10-28-2015, 01:44 PM

Quote:

all right... if that's the standard. Seems the hp and torque at the wheel is what matters.

Ultimately yes. But crank HP is a more consistent way for manufacturers to rate engines.

WHP has so many variables (tires, wheel size, weight over the axle, temperature, coefficient of friction of the surface, etc.) that it becomes practically impossible for a manufacturer to provide an accurate number.

jawn · 10-28-2015, 01:49 PM

You down with SAE? Yeah, you know me.

malave7567 · 10-28-2015, 01:51 PM

Car manufacturers follow SAE standards to measure the crank HP of an engine. Especially once SAE tightened the rules in 2005 or 2006, the numbers from manufacturers are much more consistent. It's much harder to pass an "underrated" or "overrated" engines through with the newer regulations. Also, all accessories that are standard equipment on the engine must now be on engine for the test (ex., no leaving out the power steering pump for the test to help boost HP figures).

That said, WHP is the one we care about. However, crank HP can be consistently measured in a very controlled environment (the engine is out of the car). WHP can have a lot of variables, as previously mentioned already in the thread.

Car and Driver article on the subject: http://www.caranddriver.com/columns/...olution-column

humfrz · 10-28-2015, 05:50 PM

Yep, back in the day, I sort of felt "robbed" when they went from gross HP to net HP .....

http://ateupwithmotor.com/terms-tech...et-horsepower/

humfrz

10-28-2015, 12:37 PM	#1
jackblack21 Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Drives: red scion frs Location: alberta Posts: 50 Thanks: 6 Thanked 16 Times in 9 Posts Mentioned: 2 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	How many cars rate HP at the Crank? One thing that really bugged me was finding out that the real HP of my FR-s is about 174 not 200. How many cars are rated by the company at the crank? I feel it's kinda fraudulent.

10-28-2015, 12:37 PM	#2
raven1231 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Drives: 2013 Firestorm FR-S, 2016 DGM WRX Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 4,580 Thanks: 8,264 Thanked 3,118 Times in 1,667 Posts Mentioned: 24 Post(s) Tagged: 1 Thread(s)	all and it's not fraudulent at all...they don't claim WHP... __________________ http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59870

10-28-2015, 12:43 PM	#6
DarkSunrise Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Drives: 22 BRZ (Previously 13 FR-S) Location: USA Posts: 5,794 Thanks: 2,164 Thanked 4,242 Times in 2,220 Posts Mentioned: 48 Post(s) Tagged: 2 Thread(s)	Uhh pretty much every manufacturer? I can't think of any that advertise horsepower to the wheels. __________________ "Never run out of real estate, traction, and ideas at the same time." 2022 BRZ Build 2013 FR-S Build

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10-28-2015, 12:42 PM	#5
Toyarzee Shibby! Join Date: Feb 2014 Drives: '14 White FR-S, '01 turbo mini taco Location: Costa Mesa, CA Posts: 647 Thanks: 838 Thanked 583 Times in 269 Posts Mentioned: 4 Post(s) Tagged: 2 Thread(s)	Must be the first car you've owned and taken note of the power rating figures. There's several good reasons they do this and it's covered in several threads... fraudulent? No...

10-28-2015, 12:44 PM	#7
jackblack21 Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Drives: red scion frs Location: alberta Posts: 50 Thanks: 6 Thanked 16 Times in 9 Posts Mentioned: 2 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	all right... if that's the standard. Seems the hp and torque at the wheel is what matters.

10-28-2015, 12:46 PM	#8
Toyarzee Shibby! Join Date: Feb 2014 Drives: '14 White FR-S, '01 turbo mini taco Location: Costa Mesa, CA Posts: 647 Thanks: 838 Thanked 583 Times in 269 Posts Mentioned: 4 Post(s) Tagged: 2 Thread(s)	It all matters and is all relevant, both figures tell you different stories

10-28-2015, 12:59 PM	#9
chaoskaze The Fail Boat Join Date: Aug 2011 Drives: CWP S.B. Location: LasVegas Posts: 3,028 Thanks: 4,718 Thanked 1,293 Times in 873 Posts Mentioned: 19 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	it's call horse power war for a reason, if u are in that game you brought the wrong car.

10-28-2015, 01:04 PM	#10
go_a_way1 Not Bаnned Anymore Join Date: Jan 2015 Drives: Heavily Modified FRS Location: Calgary, AB Posts: 9,827 Thanks: 14,918 Thanked 8,274 Times in 4,797 Posts Mentioned: 355 Post(s) Tagged: 374 Thread(s)	I thought everyone knew all OEM's rated crank HP, unless they state otherwise. But lets say a camaro has 300WHP and a Stang had 310HP people will buy the Stang although the camaro makes way more power.

10-28-2015, 01:49 PM	#12
jawn Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Drives: 2015 CWP BRZ Limited Location: NOVA Posts: 2,800 Thanks: 1,801 Thanked 3,946 Times in 1,757 Posts Mentioned: 105 Post(s) Tagged: 7 Thread(s)	You down with SAE? Yeah, you know me.

10-28-2015, 01:51 PM	#13
malave7567 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Drives: (formerly) 2013 Raven FR-S Location: Houston, TX Posts: 396 Thanks: 117 Thanked 218 Times in 136 Posts Mentioned: 3 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Car manufacturers follow SAE standards to measure the crank HP of an engine. Especially once SAE tightened the rules in 2005 or 2006, the numbers from manufacturers are much more consistent. It's much harder to pass an "underrated" or "overrated" engines through with the newer regulations. Also, all accessories that are standard equipment on the engine must now be on engine for the test (ex., no leaving out the power steering pump for the test to help boost HP figures). That said, WHP is the one we care about. However, crank HP can be consistently measured in a very controlled environment (the engine is out of the car). WHP can have a lot of variables, as previously mentioned already in the thread. Car and Driver article on the subject: http://www.caranddriver.com/columns/...olution-column

10-28-2015, 05:50 PM	#14
humfrz Senior Member Join Date: May 2013 Drives: 2013 FR-S, white, MT Location: Puyallup, WA Posts: 29,929 Thanks: 28,889 Thanked 31,935 Times in 16,471 Posts Mentioned: 709 Post(s) Tagged: 2 Thread(s)	Yep, back in the day, I sort of felt "robbed" when they went from gross HP to net HP ..... http://ateupwithmotor.com/terms-tech...et-horsepower/ humfrz

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