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09-26-2021, 12:55 PM | #43 |
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RIP Porsche Cayman (going electric in 2025)
You guys are forgetting the torque curve of an electric motor.
Yes, they make a TON of torque. At low rpm. The torque drops nearly linearly with rpm, so an electric car will never ‘pull to redline’ like a good ICE motor. Most BEVs limit the Torque under ~40mph to spare the gearbox and tires, so in that regime it stays constant, but after that they lose output rather quickly. |
The Following User Says Thank You to Yoshoobaroo For This Useful Post: | Spuds (09-26-2021) |
09-26-2021, 02:11 PM | #44 | |
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Because 500 lb/ft from a paltry 0 to 5000rpm followed by a slow ramp down to 375 lb/ft at 11k rpm is soooo much worse than the blessed 350-385 lb/ft that the Mustang Voodoo makes from an amazing 3700 rpm to 6400rpm and 320 lb/ft at 8200 RPM? In all fairness, it seems like the AWD Model 3 takes a steaming dump all over that blessed super-high-revving and much-lauded Voodoo engine. The Voodoo gets peak torque around 4800 rpm, where it's a mere 115 lb/ft less than the Model 3. When the Voodoo runs out of life at 8200rpm, the Model 3 still makes 430 lb/ft. Granted, the GT350 is 3818 lbs and the M3P is 4087lbs, albeit with 4 doors. Or should I choose another ICE because the Voodoo is just too crap an engine? Admit it: if you hate EVs then it's a culture war thing, a fetish, or just plain ignorance. The Cayman EV will run circles around the current generation.
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09-26-2021, 03:17 PM | #45 | |
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Lol. I never said I hate EVs. When we’re talking about sports cars (not the same as performance cars), feel matters most of all. I don’t care how fast it is, it will not feel how I want a sports car to feel. That’s fine. That doesn’t mean I won’t eventually get an EV. I’ll take a plug in hybrid first until we get real world changing times everywhere of 200 miles in ~20mins. Pretending EVs are better just because they’re faster is dumb, cause they’re not. Especially when we’re talking about a segment of cars that is already very hard to quantify objectively. |
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09-26-2021, 03:39 PM | #46 |
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The Teslas tend to have a fairly flat torque curve, whether innately or by design, up to 65, so unless someone is tracking the car, most buyers of sporty cars will be fine.
https://www.mountainpassperformance....-dyno-testing/ The bigger issue for most sporty car buyers is loss of power depending on battery charge.
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The Following User Says Thank You to Irace86.2.0 For This Useful Post: | Spuds (09-26-2021) |
09-26-2021, 04:07 PM | #47 |
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Maybe the other thing to mention is that most people really don’t have that many positive things to say about the sound of a 4 cylinder turbo Cayman/Boxster. Maybe no sound is better than a bad sound. Will they call it a Boxster anymore?
I thought we would see a hybrid before a full BEV from Porsche, but the world is changing fast, so I guess it makes sense.
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09-26-2021, 05:07 PM | #48 | |
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I love the way the 4banger Boxster/Cayman sounds. Porsche purists just love to be salty. |
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The Following User Says Thank You to Yoshoobaroo For This Useful Post: | EAGLE5 (09-26-2021) |
09-26-2021, 05:13 PM | #49 |
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Some may enjoy the sound, or lack of the sound, of the EV motors. ICE purists just love to be salty.
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09-26-2021, 05:23 PM | #50 | ||
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Much of the driving experience has already been quantified for the hobbyist: 0-60, g forces, suspension frequency, steering effort, and many other factors. We may, as non-automotive engineers, not have the right vocabulary to quantify everything about a certain system's feel, but nothing there is magic. It's all quantifiable. The marketing types just want you to believe otherwise. It's like with stereo systems. They sell you on bullshit and say it's magic. Hence the popularity of stupidly priced cables, among other scams. They'll even sell you $1000/foot power cables that plug right into your $.05 per foot wall wiring. Want a $12,000 turntable that still sounds worse than a 128kbps MP3 through $9 DAC for your phone from Apple? You got it, mister! So you like your acceleration to start slow and rise then get slow again and rise? That's fine, but it's a bit like saying how you love your riding experiences to involve the smell of horse feces or that impotence is a positive and expected part of the bicycle riding experience. To each his own. Quote:
Porsche does, as I'm sure you know, have several hybrids. It just doesn't make much sense in a small, light car. I think the only reason they even made their plug-in hybrids (short of that supercar) is to satisfy the ever-growing number of no-emissions zones in European city centers. That all said, I'm far from in love with my Model Y. It has many issues. It his, still, the best option for me on the market. That will likely change over the next 2-3 years. I can't wait for the Cayman BEV.
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09-26-2021, 05:45 PM | #51 | |
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RIP Porsche Cayman (going electric in 2025)
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To be clear, I’m not advocating we hamstring EV’s so they feel more like ICE’s. I don’t think that’s the answer. EVs can deliver an exciting drive in their own right. The argument I’d like to make is that the classic sports car feeling is likely to go away after this current (small) crop of sports cars. I think even the Miata will become noticeably different when it goes EV. |
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The Following User Says Thank You to Yoshoobaroo For This Useful Post: | Spuds (09-26-2021) |
09-26-2021, 06:46 PM | #52 | |
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09-26-2021, 08:55 PM | #53 | |
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09-27-2021, 12:19 AM | #54 | |
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That said, I would not kick one out of bed. I'd just hope that some Russian mobsters were paying for her. I'll just leave this here:
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09-27-2021, 01:03 AM | #55 | |
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https://www.718forum.com/threads/how...3/#post-199781 (PDK is +60lbs ish, but the GT4 has the wing, heavier wheels/tires since they're thicker, bigger brake rotors, etc.) Apparently the Boxster Spyder is still the lightest one, but it's still nearly 3100lbs. Last edited by serialk11r; 09-27-2021 at 01:13 AM. |
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09-27-2021, 01:11 AM | #56 |
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Interesting thing about the Vonnen kit is that you're wasting your money on a base Carrera. Add it to a turbo and you may as well have just turned up the turbos or gone E85 or a host of other mods that would get you way more power. I suppose you can then add it just to fill in the torque falloffs as the turbo builds boost, but why not just use some software to do antilag then. Add it to a GT3 and things get interesting, but then you probably should have just gotten a turbo anyway since now you've dumped 180 lbs or so into your GT3 that's supposed to be the raw, light version. And all for about 80k installed.
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