Monogram Series FR-S is official!

[Tcoat]

Do we really need a headlight shitstorm? Appearances are subjective and to each their own. Some like things and some don't and there really is no way to debate the pros and cons of how something looks. I simply expressed my thoughts on the lights and in no way was expecting to change people's minds on theirs.

[Ashikabi]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Do we really need a headlight shitstorm? Appearances are subjective and to each their own. Some like things and some don't and there really is no way to debate the pros and cons of how something looks. I simply expressed my thoughts on the lights and in no way was expecting to change people's minds on theirs.

You're fine. You apparently can't even have cool lights legally in communist Canada apparently. Although my gf has green halos on get f250 which are illegal here but no one bothers her about them. They probably don't realize green is illegal. It's "reserved" for emergency vehicles, even though no vehicles use them

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Ashikabi

You're fine. You apparently can't even have cool lights legally in communist Canada apparently. Although my gf has green halos on get f250 which are illegal here but no one bothers her about them. They probably don't realize green is illegal. It's "reserved" for emergency vehicles, even though no vehicles use them

That is why we can't have green but they are actually used by volunteer fire fighters here so I can understand it.
Blue = Police/snow removal equipment
Amber/Orange = Side markers
Red = Rear facing lights and reflectors


Nothing "communist" about the rules since they are intended to actually keep people safe.

[Cole]

Originally Posted by Ashikabi

So a big glowing boomerang is ok but a lit up ring is somehow terrible? How are any of the new accent lights on any if the recent OEM applications any less "rice"?

Even most OEM applications are terrible. To me, they only look at home on BMW's.

[Ashikabi]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

That is why we can't have green but they are actually used by volunteer fire fighters here so I can understand it.
Blue = Police/snow removal equipment
Amber/Orange = Side markers
Red = Rear facing lights and reflectors


Nothing "communist" about the rules since they are intended to actually keep people safe.

Aren't our running lights(inner most corner of headlights) Amber though?

[Ashikabi]

Originally Posted by Cole

Even most OEM applications are terrible. To me, they only look at home on BMW's.

And I thought i was negative. Does nothing please you?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Ashikabi

Aren't our running lights(inner most corner of headlights) Amber though?

Yes. Let me rephrase it properly
Amber = Side and corner markers (which could be front and or rear)


The headlights are not corner markers and I doubt you could convince a cop that the rings were ok. Not to say that I don't see people with all sorts of weird and wonderful lights in the and back of their cars and they seem to get away with it. The car is already loud, low(ish) and orange so I just personally do not want to give even more cause to get pulled over.


Now, my wife is currently nagging me for purple under glows on her RVR so apparently she has a different opinion on lights than I do.

[Ashikabi]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Yes. Let me rephrase it properly
Amber = Side and corner markers (which could be front and or rear)


The headlights are not corner markers and I doubt you could convince a cop that the rings were ok. Not to say that I don't see people with all sorts of weird and wonderful lights in the and back of their cars and they seem to get away with it. The car is already loud, low(ish) and orange so I just personally do not want to give even more cause to get pulled over.


Now, my wife is currently nagging me for purple under glows on her RVR so apparently she has a different opinion on lights than I do.

What's an rvr

[PhantomX]

Originally Posted by dnieves

So the only demographic that would purchase a SCION is a sports watching male? What happened to the other networks the other car manufacturers advertise one (probably not in the budget) but then again as per their commercials you'd never know Subaru has a BRZ.

I'm not sure why you compiled my two separate responses to one, so I'll separate them again.

On the first line, you said the sales people only know Toyota and know nothing about the Scion brand cars. My response was each dealership that sells Scions have Scion Ambassadors, including myself in my dealership, who have gone to training to embody that title. The only reason a dealership that sells Scions won't have a Scion Ambassador or has a Scion Ambassador that doesn't really know anything is because the dealership was cheap enough not to send someone to training, which is going to hurt them in the end.

The other line was you saying Scion doesn't advertise. My response was Scion does. They recently advertised heavily in ESPN for the iM and iA, and their ads are still running. Since it's football season, why not? That's a great way to capture the market's attention. Does it mean everybody who will buy a Scion is going to be a sports person? Of course not, but that's a good start introducing their newest cars to the public. And did I say they're not advertising anywhere else? Or would you rather they not advertise at all, which was what you said was one of their problems?

And let's face it, a lot of people barely watch TV anymore. So much easier to just watch a stream of it on the internet at our own schedule than hope our recording device is doing its job and that we set it right. Scion also advertises heavily on YouTube. Those annoying ads before we can even watch the video we clicked for.

Originally Posted by dnieves

I think the problem is Scion customers want a choice (like Subaru did with the Limited and Premium). If you want bare bones get the base model, if you want HID/push button start/etc get a deluxe model, if you want TRD accessories and etc order (like heated seats/mirrors) them as options (makes the dealership more money and keeps customers happy). If you want the limited buy that -> a limited edition should be like what Scion did with the tC spec series and Honda did with the Si Mugen(special color/limited edition wheels) not just raiding the parts bins of extras we want that everybody like Hyundai already has. Case in point, every FR-S should have HID (maybe the special edition can have the Corolla's LED headlights). I was thisclose to purchasing a BRZ for the bells and whistles (despite loving the FR-S's front bumper skin) luckily I liked silver ignition and went for a ten series instead.

I don't necessarily disagree with your idea. I just posed an alternative to the same idea. Monospec allows people to start with a blank canvas, which is pretty much what the designer of our cars had in mind to begin with. We, the owners, get to personalize it the way we want it. The way I see it, heated seats (which my dealership can) and/or mirrors should be an option...though I think heated mirrors should be standard or an option we automatically have on the cars we get where I am. I would have also liked the push button start, dual climate control, body kit and quad exhaust to have been options, but that's where it becomes difficult for Toyota/Scion to market their special editions. Special colour and interior being the only thing making it special? I don't know...

Originally Posted by dnieves

Human nature.... everybody thinks they can beat the salesman.

Of course. Despite the fact that we now live in the information age and anyone could easily find the invoice price, people still think buying a vehicle is still like the in the 80s and 90s where dealerships don't disclose anything and you have to play the back and forth thing for hours when dealerships such as mine are trying their best to avoid the hassle and get more to the point.

Originally Posted by dnieves

Others must find their lineup less than exciting as the sales prove it. In the northeast (please jump in fellow forum members) the only Scions I ever see on the road (in NY/NJ/PA) are mostly 1st gen tCs and (1& 2nd gen) xBs, I see a lot of 2nd gen tCs (not as many as 1st gen) and the occasional FR-S. Where are the iA and iMs (not to mention the discontinued models)? Nobody will buy them unless Toyota promotes them. I've felt like a Scion employee since the purchase of my '08 tC years ago explaining the brand to young and old alike and its relationship with Toyota (could be worse -could be Hyundai).

Let me get this straight. You're basing the sales on what you see on the road? I've sold 8 FR-S in one month, but I only see them here and there. Sometimes, I even mistake the same coloured ones as the same FR-S. Knowing I sold 8 FR-S in one month, alone, can I really say "These things must not sell. I don't see a lot of them driving around." For all I know, the owners decided to put them away for the winter. Maybe some owners got deployed. Etc.

xBs and tCs have been around a long time and were (still are) widely popular, so of course you'll see them often. Some people mistake the xD (and even the xA) as xBs and vice versa. The FR-S has only been around 3-3.5 years. The iA and iM JUST came out. Do you really think the whole continent will be littered with them in a matter of months?

I'll skip the promote portion since I already addressed it.

Originally Posted by dnieves

I like Scion a lot they're a very good value (this FR-S is my second Scion) and reading about how dealerships were able to opt out of Scion/have no presence in the media/have salespeople that haven't done their homework makes me wonder about the brand (though you do seem well indoctrinated).

Scion definitely understands that they need to step up their marketing. Their massive advertising campaign on ESPN and on YouTube was actually a start from what they told me during the iM/iA training event I went to. They've also stepped up on their ability to finance first time buyers and buyers with challenged credit (5% required down that originally was 10%, rate exceptions, etc.), as well as buyers with mediocre to awesome credit get a chance at the special financing promotions without much hoop jumping.

I think the bigger problem is at the dealerships level. Some don't believe or care for the product. It's already bad enough when the sales person doesn't believe in the product they're selling, but it's even worse when it's the whole dealership. But, the nice part about that is with the dealerships that don't believe in Scion being able to opt out, it weeds them out and helps Scion from getting negative feedback from the public. After all, the dealerships are the face of the brand.

I will admit that my dealership has sales people and sales managers that originally had the opinion that Scion was a failing brand and not worth the time and effort. Ever since I've stepped up to take on the Scion Ambassador role, proving them wrong, they're now starting to question their own opinions of the brand.

As for the "indoctrinated" comment, is that a bad thing or good thing? I don't hide the fact that I believe in the brand and the products. Some took a bit to grow on me. But, in my line of work, if you're not enthusiastic about the product, you're not selling it. And since I'm true to my feelings and opinions, I heavily dislike showing fake emotions or opinions towards something. And although the dealership level is the face of the brand, if Scion offered me a job I can do and I know I can succeed at, I'd switch over to working directly for them. And trust me, I've been looking at their available positions often.

[Cole]

Originally Posted by Ashikabi

And I thought i was negative. Does nothing please you?

You must be new here.

Edit: @Tcoat I've actually been humming and hawing about under glow. Would be a cool party trick to pull out once in a while.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Cole

You must be new here.

Edit: @Tcoat I've actually been humming and hawing about under glow. Would be a cool party trick to pull out once in a while.

I wasn't joking. We saw a pickup with it just before Christmas and my wife flat out says "OHHHHH I want that in purple". I just slowly shook my head and sighed. I will bet a package from Ebay shows up any day now.

[Cole]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I wasn't joking. We saw a pickup with it just before Christmas and my wife flat out says "OHHHHH I want that in purple". I just slowly shook my head and sighed. I will bet a package from Ebay shows up any day now.

I've seriously considered under glow just to turn it on at meets, but the cost just isn't worth it (not that I've actually researched it at all, though). The novelty probably wears off pretty fast

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Cole

I've seriously considered under glow just to turn it on at meets, but the cost just isn't worth it (not that I've actually researched it at all, though). The novelty probably wears off pretty fast

Battery powered christmas lights and zip ties. $2 at Dollartree and have the same effect for short term usage.

[Ashikabi]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Battery powered christmas lights and zip ties. $2 at Dollartree and have the same effect for short term usage.

Tcoat has done lots of research...