Quote:
Originally Posted by CSG Mike
TL;DR the 86 was built to a price point roughly half that of the s2k.
Imagine if a 50k "pure" sports car was built today for the s2k's production numbers, with no regard for actual performance. It wouldn't sell, but it would be a badass car.
Some counterpoints.
The F2xC's emissions are a few orders of magnitude higher than the FA20. A lot of Honda guys will point out that Honda made 200hp/2L engines way earlier than the FA20, but if you compare even the more modern K20 to the FA20, the K20's emissions are over an order of magnitude higher, and takes 1000 more RPMs to make the same peak power.
While the FA20 is very budget oriented, it's got quite a few impressive points to it as well.
You may not have been around for the original S2000 owners but I was. Back then, 280whp was considered the maximums safe boosted power for the F2xC. Then that number bumped to 300. Then 320. Then 360. As development happens, the safe numbers go up, and it took 20 years to get to where we are now in F2xC development.
Case in point, I have an incredible amount of miles and hard driving hours on my 350whp FA20. Still on the original engine. Bought a spare years ago, and it's still sitting.
Each of the 3 mentioned motors all have strengths and weaknesses, but for pure satisfaction, the F2xC wins, hands down.
Disclosure:
I own both a F2xC powered car, as well as a K20 powered car, in addition to my turbo BRZ.
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Mike, I've been working with your company for sometime now on building my AP1. I also was following the development of this chassis since it was unveiled at the 1996 Tokyo Auto Show (I was in my senior year of college if you want to date me). I bought a 2004 in 2004 and put 50K miles of hard DD on the car, with never any issues other than replacing the rear tires twice and doing oil changes.
I agree with everything you said and if you go back and look at my OP in this thread, I put in a disclaimer about the budget differences between these two chassis. No doubt the Twins are much cheaper because of their intended purpose. Again, I'm okay with that. I was also a first adopter on this chassis, buying a 2013 FRS (look at my forum join date). It too was a DD for 2 years and I put 30K miles on it, again with no issues. If I had kept it, I certainly would have started modding the $hit out it once the warranty had expired but alas, I got married and well, you know how that goes.
I don't dislike the FA20, I even stated earlier that it is a *good* engine, but the layout is certainly not easy to work on for the average person and when the days comes for a replacement head gasket(s) or something similar, it's going to require engine out of chassis for such work. Again, for the serious tuner oriented person, probably not a big deal. Of course, having an aviation background and growing up with a grandfather who could work on anything with an engine, I learned that accessibility is a worthwhile design feature unless other engineering requirements preclude that. It's all give and take. For this car, they engineers prioritized a low center-of-gravity to give it the great handling characteristics that it has. This comes with a price though that people need to consider when comparing cars for possible purchase. That's all I am saying and of course, well, Subaru does Boxer engines so there's that.
The FA20, at least in the first couple of years, didn't evoke a lot of excitement from me but again, that's subjective to some degree. I still bought one though and am still considering another one (though at this point, might be worth waiting to see what happens with the second generation Twins and we know the pandemic is putting a big hit on the auto industry).
You and I are both lucky, we have had both of these cars and gotten a lot of seat time in each. Certainly you are way more experienced on the track than me, that's why I have been working with your company for the past year with purchasing parts to build my S2K into something a lot more than it is from the factory. I'm not trying to say one is better than the other, just trying to provide input for the person who is looking at this thread because they are maybe trying to decide between these different vehicles and their differences are. Not everyone is as fortunate as us to be able to own both and do racecar stuff with them.
One of these, I'll post my build thread up of my S2K, with a detailed listing of what it takes/costs to turn an S2K into a serious track machine. I know you know the answer to that question already. More the reason for someone on a budget to go with the Twins!
