looking for 'fun' fires for HPDE

[gshopper]

Not sure where to post this, so please forgive/ ignore multiple posts
Most tire discussions center on grip, longevity, heat tolerance, and price. While all these are important, very few discussions have discussed an important topic (to me): how they feel. GRM has an extensive review of tires, but doesn't cover this topic. Most forum discussions don't either.

I drive a BRZ in the advanced groups, so I have pretty much given up on getting impressive lap times. What I want to do is be the guy who is getting the most out of his equipment and having the best time at the track. And part of the enjoyment of driving is how the car feels in the corners. I like driving so I can feel the car just starting to slip and get loose. And then controlling it with a little throttle or steering input. It is a wonderful feeling to throttle steer through Big Bend at Lime Rock or the Carousel at Summit Point. And I have found that how that feels is dependent on tires. a 'good' tire will let me slip and slide in a controlled fashion, be easily correctable, and generally forgiving. The car is a street car that I drive to the track.

My old (and sold) E36 had NT01's, and it was a treat to trail brake into corners and feel the car rotate and how the rears would start to slip, but I was always able to control it easily and safely. The tires were 'playful', the car was tail-happy, but I always had confidence that I could trust the tires to do what I asked.

With my BRZ, I started with Falken 615K's after ditching the Primacy's. Loved them. Tire Rack described them as ' easiest to drive in the whole test. It seemed happy anywhere near or over its limit, with neutral balance and progressive, gentle breakaway that was easily caught and brought back." The only reason I changed from the 615's was that I was looking for a tire that was a little faster.

I got a set of R-S4's and was immediately disappointed. The had a reasonable amount of grip, but no personality. They gripped until they broke away, and then it was a chore to manage the car. I don't know how to describe it, but it was always challenging to drive at the limit.

I changed the R-S4's to a set of V730's and LOVED them! The had all the good characteristics of the 615K's with a little more grip, and still were fun, slip-happy, and inspired confidence and trust. They lasted forever... or at least long enough. However, they functionally became slicks after a few days and were a problem in the rain. Because I do not have a trailer or tow vehicle, I have to drive to the track on my track tires. And if it rains on the way, I have can have (and have had) a few white-knuckle moments. No fun hydroplaning on the highway. So I got something new after the V730's.

Enter Continental ECF. They have decent grip, but they feel like the R-S4's to a slightly lesser extent. Driving at the limit is more of a challenge than a joy. The car gets squirrely quite easily and requires a lot of work to keep it on the track. Less than the R-S4's, though.

So I need help finding the right tire - if it exists. Criteria are:
Fun to drive. Easy to control at the limit.
Can be driven in the rain. Won't hydroplane on the highway (Sorry, V370 and NT01)
Reasonable grip and longevity. I'm in the 200TW enduro section because that seems like the sweet spot.
Your suggestions/ experience would be welcome. Maybe I should be happy and slow with the Falkens, but I'm sure that there is a tire out there which would give me the track experience I love. I guess I could get a tire trailer and swap tires at the track, but I'd rather not go that route.

Thanks in advance.

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Can't contribute, but this is not such an undiscussed topic. I've seen plenty of discussion on breakaway characteristics, or how easy the tire is to drive at the limit. True, it's less common than grip and endurance - you just need to dig a little more in the comments and forum discussions.

Originally Posted by gshopper

Because I do not have a trailer or tow vehicle, I have to drive to the track on my track tires.

What tire size are you running? You can easily fit a set of 225/45R17 in the car, and larger sizes with more difficulty. After a few practices, it takes me less than 30 minutes to unpack the car and swap the wheels, and same 30 minutes to swap the street wheels back and pack it up.

[NoHaveMSG]

A full set of tires fits in the back of the car along with tools, and a suitcase. I’d recommend a second set of wheels and tires. Then you can have both and run what conditions require.

[ZDan]

For ability to maintain control while slipping/sliding, A052, *especially* in the WET (at least with some tread depth)! They are just amazing, all others I have tried have fallen way short. In particular, last year at NHMS in the rain, I smashed my '17 BRZ in the wet on new RE71RS :'( Next day I drove a friend's same-year but *stock* BRZ in the wet, and we both ran his car back to back in the rain on my RE71RS vs. A052 and it was not even close. We were looking at each other in amazement at how hard we could *drive* the car in the wet on the Yoks, vs. on the RE71RS where we were tiptoeing around, *seconds* slower.

On the A052s, he took his first class win in the wet in the time trial, and I ran his car a class up in my class, and beat probably the best driver in the club in the same run group (was close!) which was *instrumental* in taking class championship last year!

I typically put them on the car at start of track season and leave them on, for the street, all season. 2 sets can get me through 6 event season, 12 track days, IIRC...

A052s, are *the best*.

[gshopper]

Thanks for the responses.

Ohio: I googled tires and breakaway characteristics and didn't find much. Do you have any sites or references you can share?

NohaveMSG: I may have todo this route, but I'm not sure I can fit everything, including gas, tools, etc. I also am an advocate of a square setup and the '5 tire solution' so space would be even tighter

[Tokay444]

Every fire I've ever lit has been fun.

[jflogerzi]

Low grip and smiles per dollar with some decent pace and communicative you can beat the GT Radial SX2 in 17's. Cheap and a great 260TW tire that can take the abuse. Should be okay in the rain for DD duties

[CSG Mike]

GT Radial SX2. Lasts forever. Super consistent grip. Great communication, and lower grip to always dance around that limit.

[ruturaj001]

I am not experienced as you and found your post helpful comparing all tires. I run SX2 and was planning to graduate to R-S4 in few years but might as well go for 615K+ now.

Falken 615K is not available anymore but Falken 615K+ might be your answer, more grip, same feel but less tread life.

[ruturaj001]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

GT Radial SX2. Lasts forever. Super consistent grip. Great communication, and lower grip to always dance around that limit.

That tire is great but it needs so much balancing weight, not sure if noise is from it, my instructor told me to check balance. I went to shop to get tires rebalanced and spent 180 to have no difference.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by ruturaj001

That tire is great but it needs so much balancing weight, not sure noise is from it, my instructor told me to check balance. I went to shop to get tires rebalanced and spent 180 to have no difference.

sounds like you have bent wheels.

[ruturaj001]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

sounds like you have bent wheels.

Wheel is pretty much new (< 1k mile and no potholes were hit) with no visible bend.

Edit: Wheels were new out of the box when SX2 were put on it, needed significant weights and were making the noise. After 2 track days and about 500-600 miles I did rebalancing.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by ruturaj001

Wheel is pretty much new (< 1k mile and no potholes were hit) with no visible bend.

Your results would say otherwise.

Visually inspect the wheel on a balancer. You will likely not see a bent wheel otherwise without specific training or experience.

[ruturaj001]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Your results would say otherwise.

Visually inspect the wheel on a balancer. You will likely not see a bent wheel otherwise without specific training or experience.

sorry edited the post later on. Tire needed significant weights when they were first installed on out of box wheels. I will check with nearby rim shop.