Cayman like performance?

[marvey]

Originally Posted by Thrustin

What the hell are you talking about?

They did something to the steering for the 2015 GT86s to tighten them up.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...t=72098&page=4

It feels like stiffer bushings on the rack or elsewhere related. Really no idea what they did. Eventually, someone will figure it out.

[Thrustin]

Originally Posted by marvey

They did something to the steering for the 2015 GT86s to tighten them up.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...t=72098&page=4

It feels like stiffer bushings on the rack or elsewhere related. Really no idea what they did. Eventually, someone will figure it out.

Maybe I'll trade mine in.

[2point0]

TiC steering rack bushings: $55. Easy as pie.

[BRZPDX]

All the 2015 suspension enhancements can probably be done in less than $500 of modifications..

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by gt8613

who r the CSG guys?

@CSG Mike @CSG David

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by gt8613

What would it take ( amount of money and a list of parts) for the twins to perform on par with Porsche when it comes to handling.

Well, first off, here's the problem. The car already hits diminishing returns with tire width and stickiness in stock form, due to the lack of power.

I actually happen to have a few hundred hours of seat time in the above mentioned posts by other members, 458, various Cayman variants, etc., and all of these care have the ability to throttle steer to a degree, although the Cayman really lacks the power to get the rear end loose for the tires they come with from the factory. The cars are also all designed to understeer in stock form, for the safety of the owners.

So, are you looking to perform on par with a stock Cayman, or with a lightly modified Cayman (tires, brake pads, alignment, nothing else)?

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by ZionsWrath

What? Curb weight for Cayman is on Porsche site

Manual 2888
PDK 2954

http://www.porsche.com/usa/models/ca...turesandspecs/

And 3083 for the Cayman manual at C&D: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...al-test-review

[RehabJeff86]

Originally Posted by s2d4

I am thinking of selling my GTS86, the AW11 is so much better at everything except being newer and being able to fit more grocery. I can crash 10 of them before getting another 86.

Nice driving but why r u in the beginners class LOL

[Ubersuber]

Originally Posted by marvey

I was actually going to buy a 981 Cayman but ended up with the BRZ instead. It really wasn't a hard decision after driving both cars twice.

The 981 is heavier, most certainly felt heavier (it seems hard trying to get consistent curb weight numbers on the 981), and its suspension is much stiffer, to the point where you will lose traction and slip on less than good roads.

The 2015 BRZ steering has better feel than 981 steering, which is kind of numb like the 2014 BRZ steering. Even then, the 2014 steering is more precise once you turn the wheel past that spongy zone.

If you think BRX brakes are mushy, the 981 brakes are even more mushy; although I feel 981 brake modulation is good. Overall 981 brakes are much better. 981 being mid-engined feels better under braking. Really hard to beat mid-engined cars in that respect.

BRZ feels like it has lower center of gravity and seems more willing to rotate with a more direct feel with the road. 981 seems to remove connection to the road, while also having the disadvantage of riding rough. Bumps in road are met with bam bam bam in comparison to the BRZ. Really not happy with compliance of suspension / wheels to road of 981, especially around El Lay.

I'd say get the Essex brake kit, wheels, and tires (don't even have to overdo that), and you have a car with even slightly better "handling" than 981. You don't even need to touch the springs or dampers, especially with the 2015s. The BRZ has the inherent advantage of lower center of gravity and lighter weight. Just that the limits are low for the stock car because of its rubber and brakes.

Porsche has strayed too far from its roots. The automotive press fawns way too much over them. There's a reason the magazines like to compare the GT86 with the Cayman S; because comparing with the Cayman would be embarrassing for Porsche. You can buy two BRZs with wheels, tires, even coil-overs for the cost of one Cayman since the Porsche dealerships don't sell base Caymans, and the typical set of Porsche options is at least $10K. Make that three if you want a Cayman S with the goodies. This is important if you intend to track the car. I figured can afford to crash one or two by going with the BRZ. Not so with the 981.

I made the same decision for the same reasons.

The Cayman is too loud, too noisy and too expensive. The ride is very poor.

The BRZ is more like the basic sportscar of the 60's and 70's but updated.

You can drive the wheels off a BRZ and nobody would notice. Try that with a Cayman and it would be obvious.

With a supercharger a BRZ would match the Cayman easily, not the S but certainly the base car.

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by RehabJeff86

Nice driving but why r u in the beginners class LOL

Lol, yeah.
That wasn't me driving though.
Also, it was sarcasm based on half truths which is perfect for suberman.

[stonenewt]

Interestingly the GT86 was the warmup/evaluation car they used on a Porsche experience day (high praise if you ask me). I didn’t get a huge amount of time in the Toyota, just 2 laps of the tightish multi-surface track to make sure I was safe enough to let out in the expensive cars. They said the suspension was stock but the car was rolling on 225/45R17 & 255/40R17 PS2 (all the cars were on Michelin tyres). The other thing was I stepped out of the Toyota straight into their Cayman S (PASM equipped)

On the smooth surface sections the Twin was really good, felt absolutely planted & was very adjustable. Very close to the Cayman in terms of grip & handling ability, I think the Cayman was on PSS not PS2! However on the sections of the track with rough or uneven surfaces I was left with the GT86 skipping off the top of lumps & bumps. On those surfaces the Cayman absolutely destroyed the GT86 due to its composure, the Porsche was also a lot more comfortable in the cabin.

This tells me that fundamentally the Twins are 90% there in terms of a Cayman equivalent chassis but the suspension is lacking in the spring/damping balance compared to a PASM chassis. From what I’ve read the problem lays in the damping being too strong & not letting the wheel move fast enough. So the first order of business with the car is to sort the damping/ spring synergy out which means you do one of two things
1) Get slower/weaker dampers to allow for faster wheel movement.
2) Get stronger springs to allow for faster rebound reaction.

While it maybe cheaper to ‘fix’ the spring weight to get the better movement I think a PASM Cayman will ace a stiffer Twin on UK back roads. So you’re looking at the more expensive route of sorting the damping. Normally I’d head for Bilstein B4 dampers, but it doesn’t seem they exist for the Twins so maybe the B6 dampers.

[troek]

Originally Posted by BRZPDX

All the 2015 suspension enhancements can probably be done in less than $500 of modifications..

the sachs dampers run 700 over here, i cant imagine theyd be much cheaper in the states.

[Yui-Chan]

Originally Posted by stonenewt

On the smooth surface sections the Twin was really good, felt absolutely planted & was very adjustable. Very close to the Cayman in terms of grip & handling ability, I think the Cayman was on PSS not PS2! However on the sections of the track with rough or uneven surfaces I was left with the GT86 skipping off the top of lumps & bumps. On those surfaces the Cayman absolutely destroyed the GT86 due to its composure, the Porsche was also a lot more comfortable in the cabin.

This tells me that fundamentally the Twins are 90% there in terms of a Cayman equivalent chassis but the suspension is lacking in the spring/damping balance compared to a PASM chassis. From what I’ve read the problem lays in the damping being too strong & not letting the wheel move fast enough. So the first order of business with the car is to sort the damping/ spring synergy out which means you do one of two things
1) Get slower/weaker dampers to allow for faster wheel movement.
2) Get stronger springs to allow for faster rebound reaction.

While it maybe cheaper to ‘fix’ the spring weight to get the better movement I think a PASM Cayman will ace a stiffer Twin on UK back roads. So you’re looking at the more expensive route of sorting the damping. Normally I’d head for Bilstein B4 dampers, but it doesn’t seem they exist for the Twins so maybe the B6 dampers.

1) Correction... it needs weaker/less/looser compression damping force under fast speed damping (bumps, rumble strips, quick jars, etc.), but still strong/more/stiff damping force under slow speed damping (turns, braking, accel, straights)

2) Correction... it needs more rebound damping under fast speed damping to compensate for post bumps and to recover after a bump and set the tire back into the road for traction.

Correct me if I'm wrong though.

[stonenewt]

Originally Posted by Yui-Chan

1) Correction... it needs weaker/less/looser compression damping force under fast speed damping (bumps, rumble strips, quick jars, etc.), but still strong/more/stiff damping force under slow speed damping (turns, braking, accel, straights)

2) Correction... it needs more rebound damping under fast speed damping to compensate for post bumps and to recover after a bump and set the tire back into the road for traction.

Correct me if I'm wrong though.

My gut feeling after driving the GT86 over track & road surfaces plus the the BRZ on road is that both have dampers which are simply too strong for the springs. Basically both lack composure like my E87 1er on back roads before I put on the Birds B1 kit - which ran on lower spring rates with weaker damping all round. If I was going to do significant track time I'd go for higher rate springs but for back road driving I feel that a softer more compliant suspension would be better even if that does mean more body roll. Of course the fast that the Birds B1 kit was so good may be clouding my judgment. On my 111R the upgraded suspension was more-or-less perfect out of the box on stock settings so I never really touched it.

I'm still waiting on my car to be delivered so right now I'm hypothesising on about 45-60 min driving time.