Future of FRS/BRZ

[Tcoat]

In fairness to Rich I think he was asking about the more long term viability of the car than yet another "the next model year will have xxxx" rumour.


The "drop: in sales is exactly what I would expect to see in a new model car. The first year would be huge with everybody that followed development. The following year would still be strong as the cars get out on the street and are seen and then you will see a drop off as the market for them stabilizes. After 3 or 4 years (now) used ones will start to come up in numbers and that will impact the sales numbers even higher. It is important to note that they are still selling what they makes since they anticipate this and planned the builds around it. It would be a much bigger concern if there were fields of tem parked in storage since they were not moving but from what I can find that is not the case.


Whatever changes are planned were planned back in 2009 or earlier. People don't understand how long something as simple as a different antenna or dash trim take to put into place. The manufacturers don't look at each years sales and decide what they are going to do for the next model year this all happens at least 3 years in advance. It is not as simple as saying "oh we only sold 100 this year we better make 80 next and let's throw some new knobs on it to try to juice it up". Someplace there is a massive chart planning out every single change from concept to end of model that will include refreshes and numbers built. They will not deviate from that plan unless something drastic happens. Look at the Aztek for example. They knew it was a turd on wheels and had to sell it below cost just to get rid of it yet they continued to make it for 5 years since the contracts were all in place and it would have cost them more to drop it than to make it and immediately scrap tem all. This is how much the pre planning effects the auto industry.


As far as what changes they will make go that could be a bad news story for many of the people here but great news for the public in general. This is a very specialized vehicle and was originally designed for a very specific type of driver. There are only so many of type of driver around so they need to expand the market. Since the "more power" crowd is a sub group of the existing market that is not the direction they are likely to go in. They are much more likely to head more to the "average Joe". This means more features, less raw, and lowering overall performance. I believe we have already seen this beginning to happen with the suspension changes (not saying they are "worse" just tamed a bit) over the 15 and 16 models. The supposedly "luxury" features of the RS2 are very telling as to what direction I think we will see the cargo. Eventually the car will get bigger and heavier to accommodate the comfort features as we saw with many of the sports models to proceeded it.


I do think a version of the STi and maybe a TRD will show up at some point. However these will be limited numbers and will not actually be built to satisfy the performance crowd but to sell more base models. Mustang GTs are about10% of the Mustang production with the rest made up by the lower level performers. They are made so that Mrs Retired School Teacher can have a Mustang that meets her low level performance needs but still looks like a race car. There is no money to be made in the performance level cars for most of the manufacturers (Porsche, Ferrari, etc don't count since that is all they make) and their bread and butter is making higher volumes of the cars that look like their performers. This is what the STi will be meant to do. It will bring average people in the door and when they gasp in shock at the price the sales guy will say " ahhh but over here is the BRZ limited. It is the same thing only a little less power and is half the price".


In summary; will the car survive? Probably. Will it survive as it is? Probably not.

[RichardsFRS]

That's the intelligent answer I was looking for. Just discussion. I guess we as owners are hoping for to much to fast, and the manufacturers work on a more slow pace. I'm just used to working on tight quick deadlines I think everyone else should be too lol

Good point about the antenna. Something as small as an antenna could take years . But I think I read the designer built the car so the driver can build the car, which is why this car has so many aftermarket offerings I guess

I missed out on all the discussion about this and most discussions of any importance about this car. I just bought mine two months ago and its all brand new to me

Thanks Tcoat!

[RichardsFRS]

Originally Posted by FRSBRZGT86FAN

You seem to have a knack for creating erroneous and useless threads

I do don't I! Everyone has a hidden talent!

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by RichardsFRS

That's the intelligent answer I was looking for. Just discussion. I guess we as owners are hoping for to much to fast, and the manufacturers work on a more slow pace. I'm just used to working on tight quick deadlines I think everyone else should be too lol

Good point about the antenna. Something as small as an antenna could take years . But I think I read the designer built the car so the driver can build the car, which is why this car has so many aftermarket offerings I guess

I missed out on all the discussion about this and most discussions of any importance about this car. I just bought mine two months ago and its all brand new to me

Thanks Tcoat!

Ya people seem to think that the parts on their cars magically appear at the assembly plant. There is just as much that goes into each individual part as there is the whole car. I cringe every time I hear somebody say "that looks cheap why don't they change it" or "X part would be better than Y part" they should use that. The manufacturers have to pay for those things and it is expensive.
We have a large customer that wants to change the rotor coating coverage by 2 millimeters. It is going to cost them so much they have been debating it for 3 years now.
That simple antenna change if not handled properly could cost them millions. This is why the updates and refreshes have to be planned out so well and way in advance of the change.

[ollie]

Thanks @Tcoat great read and answer to good question. It was not about more power or hearsay or I would like. The Mazda MX-5 Miata is now in its 17th year and I hope our car can stand the test of time. One thing to consider is that toyota is all about reducing emissions.


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[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by RichardsFRS

I do don't I! Everyone has a hidden talent!

Just don't, for any reason, no matter how cool you think it is, even if your last dying wish, ever, post up an article for some clickbait (especially motoring.au) and say "look at this guys". That would not go well at all.

[Talus1]

I'm going to state a less optimistic view. I think the twins will slowly die a death precisely because they are twins. I don't think there will be any significant new investment in these models. They'll likely keep making them for a bunch more years, with some trim-only special editions to spice things up, but there won't be a "new" twin. They are not core product for either Toyota or Subaru. Subaru isn't likely to want to fund development of new major hardware, especially not RWD only, and Toyota has moved on to other things.

I think it is more likely that Subaru and Toyota will each try in their own way to fill the holes in their model lineups that would be left by the eventual death of the twins. For example, Toyota could try to "Si" the Corolla or maybe make a new, more sporting hybrid CRZ. Subaru could make another non-turbo Impreza RS stripper, with a focus on handling. (These are just illustrations of what is possible. I'm not suggesting they will happen).

Part of the reason that the MX-5 has been around so long is that it is a Mazda-only development and a core part of their business and their identity. Even they were able to defray the costs a bit by "selling" the platform to FCA (it wasn't a co-development, as the twins were).

[Braces]

It's possible that Toyota is strategically keeping the 86 at its current power levels to not interfere with the launch of the new Supra. Toyota would love to see the 86 fan base graduate to the next Supra level.

[RichardsFRS]

Good points and I can see it not getting much love in the future. Subaru has its WRX but Toyota has nothing appealing in this category. I hope the Supra comes back like its glory days. I thought MRS had potential but it just went away. Here's to the Supra to carry the torch.

[ollie]

@Talus1 yeah good point and do agree with parts, I think the auto motive industry is changing and collaboration is key to success. Mazda and Fiat is jumping on the band wagon http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/f...17-gl1bke.html


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[Cole]

This platform has no future. Journalists cry for more power, the internet cries for more power and the people who buy them generally (I know it's not the rule) don't buy a second one. There's no real incentive to get a newer one, simply because no major change has been made. No power bump, no (major) cosmetic changes, just some interior stuff and a shark fin antenna. The FRS was released under the wrong marque. Dealers have little to no knowledge of the cars quirks. It's a lot working against them, and I can't see Toyobaru continuing to develop the platform further, without caving to the masses and turning it from a small sports car to a GT car

[go_a_way1]

Originally Posted by soulreapersteve

Since goaway1 isnt here, I shall be his placeholder.

Originally Posted by LOLS2K

Originally Posted by 86geek

entertainment at it's best!

Thanks guys I took the weekend off

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Talus1

I'm going to state a less optimistic view. I think the twins will slowly die a death precisely because they are twins. I don't think there will be any significant new investment in these models. They'll likely keep making them for a bunch more years, with some trim-only special editions to spice things up, but there won't be a "new" twin. They are not core product for either Toyota or Subaru. Subaru isn't likely to want to fund development of new major hardware, especially not RWD only, and Toyota has moved on to other things.

I think it is more likely that Subaru and Toyota will each try in their own way to fill the holes in their model lineups that would be left by the eventual death of the twins. For example, Toyota could try to "Si" the Corolla or maybe make a new, more sporting hybrid CRZ. Subaru could make another non-turbo Impreza RS stripper, with a focus on handling. (These are just illustrations of what is possible. I'm not suggesting they will happen).

Part of the reason that the MX-5 has been around so long is that it is a Mazda-only development and a core part of their business and their identity. Even they were able to defray the costs a bit by "selling" the platform to FCA (it wasn't a co-development, as the twins were).

I hope you didn't think I was being optimistic.
Will the car carry on for a while? Yes I think it will but I envision a much different vehicle down the road.
Much like this:



Turned into this:

[dnieves]

Originally Posted by RichardsFRS

That's the intelligent answer I was looking for. Just discussion. I guess we as owners are hoping for to much to fast, and the manufacturers work on a more slow pace. I'm just used to working on tight quick deadlines I think everyone else should be too lol

Good point about the antenna. Something as small as an antenna could take years . But I think I read the designer built the car so the driver can build the car, which is why this car has so many aftermarket offerings I guess

I missed out on all the discussion about this and most discussions of any importance about this car. I just bought mine two months ago and its all brand new to me

Thanks Tcoat!

For intelligent answers Tcoat is your guy.