Potential Cause of rumored GR86’s blown engine? Seal packing(RTV) was peeled off

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by mycrors7

Oh it’s 60k for warranty? Yikes I gotta drive more LOL

Do you guys not RTFM? lol

In the US, outside of Hyundai/Kia, it's pretty standard to have a:

3/36 - Bumper to bumper
5/60 - Powertrain
5/unlimited for rust

Emissions is a bit different.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

Emissions is a bit different.

In the US, the Feds require the emissions warranty for light-duty vehicles to be at minimum all emissions related parts are covered for 2 years or 24,000 miles, with the catalytic converter and ECU covered for 8 years or 80,000 miles.

That is why most areas with emissions testing requirement usually exclude the first two years.

I think the requirement in California may be higher but not sure. For example, seems I remember that they require any car considered to be "low emissions" such as plug in hybrids, to be warranted up to 15 years/150,000 miles for any part that would make the check engine light come on.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

In the US, the Feds require the emissions warranty for light-duty vehicles to be at minimum all emissions related parts are covered for 2 years or 24,000 miles, with the catalytic converter and ECU covered for 8 years or 80,000 miles.

That is why most areas with emissions testing requirement usually exclude the first two years.

I think the requirement in California may be higher but not sure. For example, seems I remember that they require any car considered to be "low emissions" such as plug in hybrids, to be warranted up to 15 years/150,000 miles for any part that would make the check engine light come on.

Yeah, I figured he could google that part.

[Starbucker]

1k Oil change analysis by Blackstone. Note the RTV comment.

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by Starbucker

1k Oil change analysis by Blackstone. Note the RTV comment.

i thought you and tcoat had both said something similar before,

one shouldn't really be watching the UOA for silicone products, but for increased engine wear indicators, indicating poor lubrication from reduced pressure and/or blocked passageways.

[austintampa]

Originally Posted by Starbucker

1k Oil change analysis by Blackstone. Note the RTV comment.

wood i be wrong to think that the problematic RTV wouldnt necessarily show in the oil sample?

think of it like this.

the RTV isnt meant to dissolve in the oil - the opposite.

assumably the exposed bead on the inside of the oil pan is touching oil all the time.

if a piece falls into the oil - its floating, getting sucked to the pickup - but is it dissolving into the oil though (enough to show on a test)? hell if it was - it wouldnt be that bigga issue - because then it would get through the pickup screen, hit the filter, and be gone with an oil change.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by austintampa

wood i be wrong to think that the problematic RTV wouldnt necessarily show in the oil sample?

think of it like this.

the RTV isnt meant to dissolve in the oil - the opposite.

assumably the exposed bead on the inside of the oil pan is touching oil all the time.

if a piece falls into the oil - its floating, getting sucked to the pickup - but is it dissolving into the oil though (enough to show on a test)? hell if it was - it wouldnt be that bigga issue - because then it would get through the pickup screen, hit the filter, and be gone with an oil change.

Facts have no place in hysteria.

[Petah78]

Originally Posted by austintampa

wood i be wrong to think that the problematic RTV wouldnt necessarily show in the oil sample?

think of it like this.

the RTV isnt meant to dissolve in the oil - the opposite.

assumably the exposed bead on the inside of the oil pan is touching oil all the time.

if a piece falls into the oil - its floating, getting sucked to the pickup - but is it dissolving into the oil though (enough to show on a test)? hell if it was - it wouldnt be that bigga issue - because then it would get through the pickup screen, hit the filter, and be gone with an oil change.

Logic is sound, though silicon can be higher given i "think" these motors are sealed with more RTV than your traditional ones (but fact check me on this). I think paying attention to the wear metals is key.

[austintampa]

Originally Posted by Petah78

Logic is sound, though silicon can be higher given i "think" these motors are sealed with more RTV than your traditional ones (but fact check me on this). I think paying attention to the wear metals is key.

no i think Subaru / Toyota addressing the problem publicly, announcing the issue resolved, extending confidence to owners would be key.

i know how to fix this for owners - i dont know how to manufacture it but I might give it a shot.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Starbucker

1k Oil change analysis by Blackstone. Note the RTV comment.

Thanks!

Yes there will be higher silicone and metals in the first couple of tests. As the analysis very clearly states that is perfectly normal and expected. Hell, if it didn't show elevated silicone in the first sample I would question the validity of the test!
If you are still getting high metals by the third or fourth test THEN you can start to worry.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by austintampa

wood i be wrong to think that the problematic RTV wouldnt necessarily show in the oil sample?

think of it like this.

the RTV isnt meant to dissolve in the oil - the opposite.

assumably the exposed bead on the inside of the oil pan is touching oil all the time.

if a piece falls into the oil - its floating, getting sucked to the pickup - but is it dissolving into the oil though (enough to show on a test)? hell if it was - it wouldnt be that bigga issue - because then it would get through the pickup screen, hit the filter, and be gone with an oil change.

That makes the assumptions that
A) All the sealant starts being introduced before the filter
B) All the oil passes through the filter at all times.

Not going to repeat the whole thing but neither of these assumptions can be made.

Originally Posted by Petah78

Logic is sound, though silicon can be higher given i "think" these motors are sealed with more RTV than your traditional ones (but fact check me on this). I think paying attention to the wear metals is key.

These engines are almost completely sealed with RTV. It would take a long study of the service manual to see exactly where it is used. If this was winter may have actually gone through that exercise but at this point will leave to somebody else.
As you yourself demonstrated by opening up the filter there are at least 4 different sealants used.
Between all your pictures we have grey, green, pink and black.
Of all of them the one I would be most curious as to the source would be the green. It has a high probability of being introduced someplace between the filter and the pan. There is also a lot of it and those little flat pieces could act as a valve while plugging a channel. Under the right pressure they could open and let enough oil through but get just the wrong combination of conditions and they suck closed and BANG.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by soundman98

i thought you and tcoat had both said something similar before,

one shouldn't really be watching the UOA for silicone products, but for increased engine wear indicators, indicating poor lubrication from reduced pressure and/or blocked passageways.

That is an interesting report. Not so much for the expected silicone or initial break in metals but because of the massive amount of molybdenum and highish levels of boron and phosphorus in the sample.
I always assumed that the factory fill was just normal oil but those are all oil additives to reduce wear not the byproduct of engine operation.
There is so, so much moly that I can't help but think that the factory fill is actually a special oil specifically for break in.
If this is the case then guys that preach the "get that crap out as fast as you can" method are not doing themselves any favours.

[Petah78]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

That is an interesting report. Not so much for the expected silicone or initial break in metals but because of the massive amount of molybdenum and highish levels of boron and phosphorus in the sample.
I always assumed that the factory fill was just normal oil but those are all oil additives to reduce wear not the byproduct of engine operation.
There is so, so much moly that I can't help but think that the factory fill is actually a special oil specifically for break in.
If this is the case then guys that preach the "get that crap out as fast as you can" method are not doing themselves any favours.

Good pick up. I assumed the factory is the same reg oil. Good thing i left mine in there for 1600kms and drove it like a granny. I am only now starting to open it up more @ 2400kms.

[Code Monkey]

Here's mine, this is not the OEM fill, which I drained after 975 miles, but Motul 300V 5w-30 after three HPDE weekends. I though my copper level was high, but not worried anymore looking at the report above.