Scumbag potential presidents

[Zgrinch]

Originally Posted by HitTheGas

The main reason is not because of a nanny state, it's to prevent a feudal society.

There is a reason Bill Gates & Warren Buffet say they're not being taxed enough.

[u2b]iVOwaMWewGY[/u2b]

I already stated earlier that I am for making changes to the tax code. but as I have said way too many times a this point, even if you tax the rich at 100% it WILL NOT COVER THE DEBT.

Get this point..you cannot tax your way out of this debt...it is not possible..period.

Wake up, wake your friends up, and get off the damn government teet.

So if we were to tax the rich 100%, what do you suggest after that since the debt will still pile up ? I'm listening.....


What do you suggest to do with entitlements? I'm listening....

We gave you 100% of the rich peoples money and your still short what now....


Oh, i missed you answer....

Keep the nanny state to prevent a feudal society....

That is a very scary future....so when do the handouts stop...they won't, they will increase and the longer you wait to cut them off, the worst the violence will be...just look at Greece...

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Longhorn248

I don't think there's a single action solution to any of the problems. Can capital gains be raised? Sure. Do they need to be "jacked up"? I honestly don't think so.

I do think that higher taxes could be a part of a solution to the situation that we're in, but it's a solution that has to be coupled with so many other things, mainly huge reductions in spending and weeding out the leeches. As you can tell from this thread, I'm vehemently opposed to anyone who thinks we can just take money out of "rich" people's pockets and that will solve all our problems.

That was sort of a joke, from the sheer impossibility of it.

What I'm sort of getting at is that the things I talked about are why people want to 'tax the rich'. They want some fairness returned from those corporates that abuse the system (Lots? Most?). They are in it for the money, not for America. Justifying job exports by saying the taxes are to high in the US is apologist for economic atrocities (internet hyperbole). Justifying it by saying Americans are cheap isn't fair either. It's sort of like Mr. Buffett and taxes. He doesn't pay what he could because he doesn't have to. Americans could probably do better without buying the same cheap Walmart shit over and over, but it's already there so there is no need for an alternative.

Problem is, I can't see how to realistically offer a solution. The middle class and smaller entrepreneurs are who drive the American economy (I guess chasing the dream of being rich and not having to pay huge capital gains tax, maybe???). But how much 'stimulus' is getting to them. The ones that could do with some extra capital to get over a growth hump and add a bit more to the long term economy?


Sort of on topic:

Do these extremists (thinking of the 'Witch' Tea Party chick also) serve a purpose in trying to lower jaded lefty voter turn outs? ('No one will EVER vote for him, so no need to get down to the polls myself.')

[Homemade WRX]

I'm not getting any stimulus, never have. I also don't see 32% of my paycheck, usually end up having to pay capital gains taxes at the end of the year and hey, I don't make that much money but just enough as a single white guy to get shafted by the tax system.

I'm a huge fan of the 'flat tax' idea and refunds. Everyone wants to bitch about taxes, well most of those that do actually get a large percentage of their taxes back and are too dumb to realize that more than just 'taxes' are taken out of their paycheck.

I guess I'm a bit bitter as I started my savings account and investing when I was 8. I started have taxes on my investments when I was 12...yes, the gov't has no problem taxing a 12 year old that has his mutual funds so he can save for college!!

It's all screwed up, nothing is fair, companies need to pay importation fees/taxes/tariffs/whatever you want to call it and free trade needs to end. Our country has always turned itself around with industrialization and the next big idea. I'd love to see it again but our gov't is too damn corrupt and every politician is the little butt buddy of some larger company/organization/old frat buddy. So clean them all out, rewrite how long a senator and congressman can serve and no loophole, golden egg healthcare and retirement plan. Being elected to office was to be an honor and privilege, not a career. You did you service and went BACK to you job.

[Undecided]

Originally Posted by Zgrinch

I already stated earlier that I am for making changes to the tax code. but as I have said way too many times a this point, even if you tax the rich at 100% it WILL NOT COVER THE DEBT.

.

Dude it's not about covering the debt or not. The FACT OF THE MATTER IS, THE RICH ARE NOT PAYING SUFFICIENT TAX! PERIOD!

Other things must be put in place also to lower the debt (trust me, all countries have debt) But you simply cannot deny that the tax system is broken and the rich are the ones benefiting from it, stop making excuses and changing the subject.

[Longhorn248]

Originally Posted by Undecided

Dude it's not about covering the debt or not. The FACT OF THE MATTER IS, THE RICH ARE NOT PAYING SUFFICIENT TAX! PERIOD!

Other things must be put in place also to lower the debt (trust me, all countries have debt) But you simply cannot deny that the tax system is broken and the rich are the ones benefiting from it, stop making excuses and changing the subject.

You don't understand the difference between fact and opinion. Your statement isn't a fact, it is 100% opinion.

FIFY

But you simply cannot deny that the tax system is broken and the 47% of Americans not paying taxes are the ones benefiting from it

[Zgrinch]

Originally Posted by Zgrinch

I already stated earlier that I am for making changes to the tax code. but as I have said way too many times a this point, even if you tax the rich at 100% it WILL NOT COVER THE DEBT.

Originally Posted by Undecided

Dude it's not about covering the debt or not. The FACT OF THE MATTER IS, THE RICH ARE NOT PAYING SUFFICIENT TAX! PERIOD!

Other things must be put in place also to lower the debt (trust me, all countries have debt) But you simply cannot deny that the tax system is broken and the rich are the ones benefiting from it, stop making excuses and changing the subject.

Are you even reading my posts, that you are quoting, in your reply back to me?

What does it say in bold up there ?

Read it slowly....

Read it again....ok....now that you have finally read it, I would also add that while we are at it, we also cut out the tax loop holes for the 47% who do not pay taxes.....

So why do we need to raise taxes in the first place?

Just because you feel the rich are not paying thier fair share, or maybe to also help with the debt.....

Will raising just taxes cover the debt.....no. ...or do you disagree with that statement? ...or maybe just selective reading again.

So, I'm not making excuses and changing the subject (if in doubt, re-read the bold up there), rather I'm trying to get you to understand the real issue...our Nation's unsustainable debt.

So I go back to my original question to you, which you seem afraid to answer

What, specifically, would you suggest to lower the debt besides just raising taxes on the rich, which appears to be all you know how to type.

I'm all ears.....

[serialk11r]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital..._United_States

20% on something with risk is pretty fair to me. Clever investors who make money are helping the economy by moving capital to where it needs to be to create new businesses.

[Allch Chcar]

Can we talk about the republican candidates instead? This discussion has hit a wall.

[serialk11r]

So Romney is pretty sketchy IMO...

[SLeRoux92]

All I'm gonna say is look at my signature for my POV on the upcoming election.

I know not many people like Ron Paul, but he's the only one that has stood by his opinions and been consistent not only throughout the prelims, but MANY of them lol. He's really the only guy I see benefiting our country in any way, but I'm still of the opinion that politics is rigged and a rat race full of corruption. (I know, pretty contradicting)

Paul pretty much stands by ALL my views perfectly, except I'm more pro- gay marriage than he is. Other than that, his foreign policy is spot on, as we tend to paint a target on our backs by getting involved with EVERYTHING...drugs SHOULD be legalized, controlled and taxed...abortion SHOULD be up to the individual as there will ALWAYS be people wanting them, and if it's illegal they'll just die in back alley abortion settings.

A huge bone to pick I have is candidates using their religion as backing for their ideas...news flash, no one cares if this is a christian nation, there is LEGAL separation of church and state. No one cares if you're protestant, catholic, Mormon, or Muslim...well at least when you're making policies up.

Fucking Romney is a mormon...he believes his elders become aliens after death and get their own special planet out there in space to be the god of

santorum is...well, santorum.

Newt is just a crazy old man that's war hungry.

[HitTheGas]

Originally Posted by Zgrinch

I already stated earlier that I am for making changes to the tax code. but as I have said way too many times a this point, even if you tax the rich at 100% it WILL NOT COVER THE DEBT.

Get this point..you cannot tax your way out of this debt...it is not possible..period.

Wake up, wake your friends up, and get off the damn government teet.

So if we were to tax the rich 100%, what do you suggest after that since the debt will still pile up ? I'm listening.....


What do you suggest to do with entitlements? I'm listening....

We gave you 100% of the rich peoples money and your still short what now....


Oh, i missed you answer....

Keep the nanny state to prevent a feudal society....

That is a very scary future....so when do the handouts stop...they won't, they will increase and the longer you wait to cut them off, the worst the violence will be...just look at Greece...

where did i even mention the debt exactly? the national debt is not a new occurance, it's been growing for a long time. there are schools of political thought that actualy think having a large national debt increases national security (as deranged as that sounds). there are a million different layers to all of it.

you're overlooking the vast complexity of the system & the people who alter it in their best interests. occam's razor, think about it; who has more influence over laws?

it bothers me when people think the system works as intended; that it's simple enough to be summed up in a few sentences. that it's the system that's broken and not the people abusing it.

if i had a penny for every person who spent 5 minutes posting something on a forum claiming they know the solution to the economy, i could probably buy the world 10 times over.

[Zgrinch]

Originally Posted by HitTheGas

where did i even mention the debt exactly? the national debt is not a new occurance, it's been growing for a long time. there are schools of political thought that actualy think having a large national debt increases national security (as deranged as that sounds). there are a million different layers to all of it.

you're overlooking the vast complexity of the system & the people who alter it in their best interests. occam's razor, think about it; who has more influence over laws?

it bothers me when people think the system works as intended; that it's simple enough to be summed up in a few sentences. that it's the system that's broken and not the people abusing it.

if i had a penny for every person who spent 5 minutes posting something on a forum claiming they know the solution to the economy, i could probably buy the world 10 times over.

Never did I claim to have the answers to fix our economy. But the theme of the majority the posts seem to be all focused on taxing the rich. As I have stated before, I am also for tax reform on multiple levels.

It just seems interesting that no wants to even comment on the debt and how we might curb its growth. While debt will always be with us, most economists on both sides of the political fence agree that current levels are not sustainable, and both parties are guilty of punting on the issue.

So, I was hoping to hear others thoughts and how thier candidate, or the candidate(s) they don't like, plan to address it.
You are very correct that special interests are driving the system, and yes there is no magic bullets.

One of the main reasons I am so concerned with the debt is because of how it will effect my kids and what will they be left to deal with.

If people want to go back to discussing political gaffs, that's fine, I just don't see the point.

[HitTheGas]

Originally Posted by Zgrinch

Never did I claim to have the answers to fix our economy. But the theme of the majority the posts seem to be all focused on taxing the rich. As I have stated before, I am also for tax reform on multiple levels.

It just seems interesting that no wants to even comment on the debt and how we might curb its growth. While debt will always be with us, most economists on both sides of the political fence agree that current levels are not sustainable, and both parties are guilty of punting on the issue.

So, I was hoping to hear others thoughts and how thier candidate, or the candidate(s) they don't like, plan to address it.
You are very correct that special interests are driving the system, and yes there is no magic bullets.

One of the main reasons I am so concerned with the debt is because of how it will effect my kids and what will they be left to deal with.

If people want to go back to discussing political gaffs, that's fine, I just don't see the point.

You really shouldn't take discussions on the internet so seriously. Political gaffs are fine, it's just people having fun. None of any of this will change how the world is run. There's an ol' saying about arguing on the internet, something something something it's pointless.

I'm more concerned about how we vote now. Electronic voting? Using closed source code from private companies w/ no oversight or checks & balances? W/ no paper trail? Those machines are as secure as childproof locks. The system is only as strong as the weakest link, & that link is made of silly string.

India has it right. If we have to use electronic voting, it should be open source & vetted by the public to make it rock solid & trustable. Not only are their machines ridiculously cheaper than ours, they're ridiculously more secure.

p.s. I notice you mentioned Greece earlier; Iceland was right next to Greece in the worlds most indebted nations. Here's a an article about how they are prospering now after their financial crisis.
http://www.businessinsider.com/heres...ecovery-2012-1

[Zgrinch]

Originally Posted by HitTheGas

I'm more concerned about how we vote now. Electronic voting? Using closed source code from private companies w/ no oversight or checks & balances? W/ no paper trail? Those machines are as secure as childproof locks. The system is only as strong as the weakest link, & that link is made of silly string.

India has it right. If we have to use electronic voting, it should be open source & vetted by the public to make it rock solid & trustable. Not only are their machines ridiculously cheaper than ours, they're ridiculously more secure

+1 to this...talk about handing over the keys to the kingdom. Many problems, many things to change.