A real live negative review!

[carbonBLUE]

Originally Posted by DantKR

I'm not saying that you or I won't occasionally get this car or others moving quickly, but really, 90% of the time if it's your DD, you're not going to be doing those kinds of launches at the red light. If you are, you're just as bad as those damn teens you bitch about.

exactly, i got out and drive to random places to find places to drive spiritedly

go to the track, if i feel like killing tires, when it rains i go to an abandon shipping dock to do drifting in my friends 240

[dsgerbc]

I wonder where did the extra 100 pounds come from.

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by racerkyo

lol. i guess opinions are different. i feel like they did very well to make the 3 criteria happen.

the fun part has yet to be determined by the consumers, but most reviews point to yes.

avg mpg of ~25 is good compared to ~20 for evo, sti, s2000, rx8

affordable? ehh but compared to ~$35k for evo and sti. i think $30k for rx8. and s2000 isn't made anymore

just my thought

EVO + STI are heavier cars, boxier car design, with AWD and FI. This has a low cd, lightweight, no awd, NA with DI. Should be better than just 5 mpg combined than those.

S2000 AP1 is based on 1990s technology, redline at 8800rpm and was putting out 120hp/L which is still phenomenal. This car should do much better with new technology, DI, lighter weight, lower cd..etc.

RX8- Rotary engines are notoriously known for crappy fuel economy plus the 9000rpm redline. Heavier car, worse cd and piss poor mpg based on the rotary.

[slizoth]

I got the impression this article was bias from the get go, probably because the BRZ is a threat to the Porche but that's total conjecture. I still think the FRS Should be cheaper, maybe that just means I'll cancel my pre order and wait a year or two. I could also not wait and pickup a Veloster because I think it's an economy car that I could still have fun doing spirited driving, which is basically what I wanted out of the BRZ.

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by Tbxgz

MT did it with a 3 foot roll and a 5000 rpm clutch drop. I dont give a damn about 0-60 times if i have to drop the clutch at 4000+ rpms. Im more concerned with real world acceleration; how the low end torque feels, passing in high gears, and general real life acceleration. The numbers mean diddly to me. The test drive will determine a lot for me.

Originally Posted by Tbxgz

You mis understand me. My point was im not going to do a 4k clutch drop coming out of a red light or merging onto the highway. As my daily driver car, I just want to be able to feel the acceleration in real world situations.

Originally Posted by DantKR

Who the fuck revs to 4k rpms and drops the clutch in 90% of real life situations?

Reviewers should be clear how they test the car (whether a true 0- or with a rollout).

[Draco-REX]

You know, I'd like to see this mythical Minivan with a 5 second 0-60. All I'm finding are 8sec 0-60s.

And honestly, how often are you RACING minivans and corollas?

I merge on the highway and pass people in my spec.B without hitting boost. So It is essentially a heavy, low-compression 4 cyl and it's plenty fast for traffic. I bet I'm not even making 150hp, let alone 200hp. And even if I do get into boost, it still doesn't have the power-to-weight ratio of the BRZ.

And none of this has anything to do with launching from a standing start.

So no, it's not going to be too slow for traffic. I think people just don't realize how these numbers translate into every-day driving.

I don't see Miatas struggling in traffic. Do you?

[86'd]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

EVO + STI are heavier cars, boxier car design, with AWD and FI. This has a low cd, lightweight, no awd, NA with DI. Should be better than just 5 mpg combined than those.

S2000 AP1 is based on 1990s technology, redline at 8800rpm and was putting out 120hp/L which is still phenomenal. This car should do much better with new technology, DI, lighter weight, lower cd..etc.

RX8- Rotary engines are notoriously known for crappy fuel economy plus the 9000rpm redline. Heavier car, worse cd and piss poor mpg based on the rotary.

This is the only thing that gets me. I want the BRZ/FRS to have as high of a redline as the S2K; it's one of the things, if not THE thing that defined the car.

But the gas mileage was bad, I averaged 18-19 in the city; I think the FRS/BRZ will do really well in this department, comparatively.

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by Draco-REX

You know, I'd like to see this mythical Minivan with a 5 second 0-60. All I'm finding are 8sec 0-60s.

And honestly, how often are you RACING minivans and corollas?

I merge on the highway and pass people in my spec.B without hitting boost. So It is essentially a heavy, low-compression 4 cyl and it's plenty fast for traffic. I bet I'm not even making 150hp, let alone 200hp. And even if I do get into boost, it still doesn't have the power-to-weight ratio of the BRZ.

And none of this has anything to do with launching from a standing start.

So no, it's not going to be too slow for traffic. I think people just don't realize how these numbers translate into every-day driving.

I don't see Miatas struggling in traffic. Do you?

Paper racing.

[phenoyz]

Originally Posted by armythug

The thing about this car is that it was kinda meant to be like a painters blank canvas. Basically they wanted to give us an affordable lightweight RWD platform. An EXCELLENT platform to start with. Then once we buy the car, it's totally up to us to make the car what we want it to be. Do or do not add more power. It's the buyer's call. It's your picture to paint. This is how they should have approached their critique of this vehicle imo.

^+2

[brzmaybe]

The poor English translation make it hard for me to figure out just what disappointed the Der Spiegel contributor. Not sure what to make of the article. However, to dismiss it would be unwise.

Motor trend just released a "numbers" comparison of the Honda Civic, VW GTI, Miata, Mustang V6 and BRZ. The numbers suggest that the BRZ is a middle-of-the-pack car. Check out http://wot.motortrend.com/tested-201...ph-183407.html and note the 0-60 time...

A little anti-hype is not a bad thing, at this point. And not damaging. I think I remember some similar types of anti-hype when the Miata was first released... we all know how that turned out...

One more thought... all those folks who've written that they prefer the Mustang appear to have a solid performance argument, based on the numbers. But it's a completely different driving experience and I, for one, want to return to the lightweight sports car.

[eikond]

Doesn't surprise me that a reviewer from the home of BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Porsche, and the Autobahn would complain about having too little hp.

Wouldn't surprise me if that dude just got done reviewing a Cayman S, an M3 or a new TT or S4, etc...

I also don't really care about the 0-60 time... Being the first person to hit the 45 mile per hour speed limit when leaving the stop light doesn't do much for me. I've had high hp cars that don't turn well and I've had low hp cars that turn and handle great.. I have more fun in the latter.


I also agree that the platform is a fantastic building block. Remember that the 240sx was 155 hp stock, but turned into one of the most beloved platforms ever.. I'm not buying the BRZ for the 200hp.. I'm buying it for the platform, chassis, suspension, etc.. I'll enjoy it for a while with 200hp.. then do some light mods and get it up a bit more and enjoy each step of the way.. Then someday I'll do a FI or engine swap and enjoy it even more..

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Draco-REX

You know, I'd like to see this mythical Minivan with a 5 second 0-60. All I'm finding are 8sec 0-60s.

An Astro will do 0 - 60 in under 6 minutes, but only if you swap out the V6 for a 350 small block. This is a pretty common mod for older ones as it's a straight up conversion. All you need are new motor mounts and the engine. Transmission, etc all remain intact. Newer ones are more complicated because of the wiring harness.

Oh you meant stock. Sorry, can't help you with that.

[dsgerbc]

Originally Posted by brzmaybe

One more thought... all those folks who've written that they prefer the Mustang appear to have a solid performance argument, based on the numbers.

It takes 255-wide max performance summer rubber for the V6 mustang to best BRZ. Anyone not dead-stupid can figure out what similar grade of rubber would do to BRZ numbers in braking/skidpad (and maybe even 0-60).

[86'd]

Originally Posted by brzmaybe

The poor English translation make it hard for me to figure out just what disappointed the Der Spiegel contributor. Not sure what to make of the article. However, to dismiss it would be unwise.

Motor trend just released a "numbers" comparison of the Honda Civic, VW GTI, Miata, Mustang V6 and BRZ. The numbers suggest that the BRZ is a middle-of-the-pack car. Check out http://wot.motortrend.com/tested-201...ph-183407.html and note the 0-60 time...

A little anti-hype is not a bad thing, at this point. And not damaging. I think I remember some similar types of anti-hype when the Miata was first released... we all know how that turned out...

One more thought... all those folks who've written that they prefer the Mustang appear to have a solid performance argument, based on the numbers. But it's a completely different driving experience and I, for one, want to return to the lightweight sports car.

If the Mustang was physically smaller, and was around 3000lbs, I would get it in a heartbeat... I really, really like them otherwise. If the BRZ wasn't an option, it'd be WRX/Mustang...