2017 Toyota 86 - new name, styling, and more power

[Zaku]

Food for thought, take a look at the current market all around.

First, doesn't matter which manufacturer you are... People new to cars, old to cars will always imagine the sports model to be a sort of Halo a sort of statement, they we except it to be better than the economy model.

The Wrx over the Impreza, Miata over a Mazda 3, GTI over Golf etc, doesn't matter what the type of car, these sports cars are expected to be better. Now when Scion was around it justified the differnt approach to the interior, the brand catered to the supposedly enthusiast, even if it sold mostly to middle age late 30s people this is for the TC, FRS etc.

Now that it's a Toyota, the interior is very important it's pretty self explanatory I think some of us need to pause and take a couple of mins to think about this... scion is gone there's no excuse to not have a interior that's nicer than your corolla, and have more features in addition to it being a sports car. Either do this or unify everything so they can look the same for example the New BRZ looks like the WRX on the inside and also the new Impreza ( hasn't rolled out yet) also have the same interiors. The BMW, VW interiors all lool the same across the board etc.

Toyota was In a very tough spot, but they chose to keep the 86 and sell it In the USA even if it may not Intergrate well

Give it alittle more time they'll get it right eventually

Lastly, it's subjective about the alcantara dash on the side, these are only on top model GT86 and 86 in Japan and Europe, we got the highest trim in our mono car. So just saying this

Somewhere well in most places it's considered luxury, and it being there really does help people perceive it as good.

The issue with the US car is currently it's mono spec, if they had a lower race trim one with none of the luxury stuff like Japan.

Most of us would be ok with it, and most of us is.

Some of us however doesn't matter what Toyota or Subaru does will complain. About something.

Guess there's nothing better to do for us enthusiast, a tiny number of people who just can't be happy


You could always mod it to your taste too

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by wbradley

The more they add to the car the wider the audience. The interior was probably a weak point in terms of content in the first year. Then they systematically added more and more content with each model year. Shark fin, knee and speaker pads, auto on/off lights, etc.

The added features and the removal of the red wings on the seats takes the car further from the boy racer look to me. That in my mind is an indication Toyota is targeting a wider swath of the market beyond the racer types, more toward things women and people that just like nice stuff in cars want.

It makes sense that the big push for content comes at the end of the first gen service life. They have manufactured enough to reach an economy of scale, they can afford to add a bit of content. Also, that this coincides with re-branding to Toyota.

Maybe I am missing something here, but now that the 86 is a Toyota model, why is it still mono spec when Subaru also has an upgraded model?
Sounds like there might be an arrangement where Toyota sticks with the base spec and Subaru probably sells a lot more of the premium models than base.

With Scion gone, I'd like to see a really upscale model option. All the features of the limited models but available to order. If the Supra is going to have a high starting price, there could still be a $35 CD twin (maybe $29K US)

Also, I couldn't help but notice the price disparity between Toyota and Subaru on comparable units in Canada.

Right on the money.

The dropping of Scion goes against everything I have preached based upon my 30 years in the Tier One automotive parts manufacturing business. Model runs are pretty fixed in 3 year cycles and even the smallest changes can be chaos. Generally the manufacturers are planning a car from concept to each gen changes with very little deviation from those plans (it is expensive to deviate). The death of Scion has all the ear marks of an abrupt and final deviation from a plan. From the little we know it is fairly easy to see that this was not a long term plan that just ran it's course. There was zero rumour (very strange if was in the works long), The FRS ad materials and specs were delayed about 2 months from the norm and even the delivery of the cars lagged way behind Subaru. I feel that this is because they did not have the parts base to quickly change over (yes even badges are not stockpiled in warehouses anymore) and they had to scramble to get the car changed over. Since the 17s were meant to be Monospec Scions that was all they were prepared to get changed. Little doubt they will have more trim levels next year after they can regroup.

I also doubt there was any agreement with Subaru for them to have a higher spec car and they were holding back the Toyotas to meet it. The volume difference alone would not make this a great deal for either side. This car is nothing but a novelty sideline in the Subaru line up really since they are making bird feed dollars on them. The numbers made were not because that was how they were selling but because Subaru simply wanted a smaller piece of the pie since day one. They sold all that they built and people were not scrambling for more so why have an agreement to keep 86s in North America basic? Remember there are high spec 86s everyplace else in the world this was just a NA thing.

The 18s are going to be a whole new ball game when it comes to choices!

[Futaba]

I don't think theres much in the way of difference between the vehicles over the years, mostly cosmetic or spring rates, the stiffer chassis comment could simply be that they now include an OEM version what was previously optional (TRD tensioning parts).

The spring rate differences are more or less redundant because from what i've seen half the people buying this car pull out the oem suspension and throw in coilovers anyway.

As for trim pieces and facelift parts such as bumper, cheaper to just go to the dealership and order those parts and replace them yourself on your older vehicle then to switch cars entirely!

If you bought a '16 86, go enjoy it!, if you have a pre-'16 86, go enjoy it!, the cars great fun regardless.

[Taka]

Hm. I think the 2015-2016 interior actually looks more high end than the 2017 interior.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Zaku

Food for thought, take a look at the current market all around.

First, doesn't matter which manufacturer you are... People new to cars, old to cars will always imagine the sports model to be a sort of Halo a sort of statement, they we except it to be better than the economy model.

The Wrx over the Impreza, Miata over a Mazda 3, GTI over Golf etc, doesn't matter what the type of car, these sports cars are expected to be better. Now when Scion was around it justified the differnt approach to the interior, the brand catered to the supposedly enthusiast, even if it sold mostly to middle age late 30s people this is for the TC, FRS etc.

Now that it's a Toyota, the interior is very important it's pretty self explanatory I think some of us need to pause and take a couple of mins to think about this... scion is gone there's no excuse to not have a interior that's nicer than your corolla, and have more features in addition to it being a sports car. Either do this or unify everything so they can look the same for example the New BRZ looks like the WRX on the inside and also the new Impreza ( hasn't rolled out yet) also have the same interiors. The BMW, VW interiors all lool the same across the board etc.

Toyota was In a very tough spot, but they chose to keep the 86 and sell it In the USA even if it may not Intergrate well

Give it alittle more time they'll get it right eventually

Lastly, it's subjective about the alcantara dash on the side, these are only on top model GT86 and 86 in Japan and Europe, we got the highest trim in our mono car. So just saying this

Somewhere well in most places it's considered luxury, and it being there really does help people perceive it as good.

The issue with the US car is currently it's mono spec, if they had a lower race trim one with none of the luxury stuff like Japan.

Most of us would be ok with it, and most of us is.

Some of us however doesn't matter what Toyota or Subaru does will complain. About something.

Guess there's nothing better to do for us enthusiast, a tiny number of people who just can't be happy


You could always mod it to your taste too

The Scion brand was really never marketed to even the "supposed" enthusiast. It was marketed as an inexpensive alternative to mainstream vehicles. It was targeted to those (mostly young) people that wanted something different and practical (even the tC) but didn't want to pay big bucks and it did very well at that for a while. The inclusion of the FRS in this line up always baffled me since the whole Scion marking and image repulsed the enthusiasts that the FRS was supposedly built for in the first place. When you add the reduced dealer base and advertising ability that Scion held it makes for a car that really was only seen by two groups, the enthusiasts and those that just happened to stumble over it while looking for a nice basic Scion. These two groups generally could not give a rat's ass about the niceties of interiors or extra gadgets. Now when people go looking for a Corolla at the greatly increased dealer base (about 8 times more if my research is correct) or they actually see an ad or commercial for the car they are going to expect all the things they have in their base level sedan.
Overall it is a classic case of evolve or die for the FRS.

I have now seen one in person and still can not stand that droopy nosed, jutting jaw face but I have little doubt it will do better now that more people will know it exists.

[Quentin]

Tcoat, enthusiast doesn't have to mean wannabe racecar driver. Scion has always been about customization but it was more focused to the more hot import nights crowd. Still enthusiasts, though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Vassp]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

The Scion brand was really never marketed to even the "supposed" enthusiast. It was marketed as an inexpensive alternative to mainstream vehicles. It was targeted to those (mostly young) people that wanted something different and practical (even the tC) but didn't want to pay big bucks.

I think completely the opposite to this part of your post, the car was designed from the ground up to appeal to the enthusiast with a budget. eg; boxer engine, low centre of gravity, boot large enough to fit racing wheels, steering feel and chassis balance and overall car balance. All of these things took a lot of money and r&d to get to that point.

The opposite to that and much simpler would be to dump a more powerful engine on a parts bin chassis.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Vassp

I think completely the opposite to this part of your post, the car was designed from the ground up to appeal to the enthusiast with a budget. eg; boxer engine, low centre of gravity, boot large enough to fit racing wheels, steering feel and chassis balance and overall car balance. All of these things took a lot of money and r&d to get to that point.

The opposite to that and much simpler would be to dump a more powerful engine on a parts bin chassis.

Yes I agree with you 100% but as a Toyota with all those features not a Scion.

I was talking Scion as a brand and their normal line of vehicles. You probably don't understand how despised Scion was by the enthusiasts here. Scions were oddball, low cost vehicles aimed at a very specific demographic and the enthusiast was not part of that group. That was my point that the FRS/86 was never designed nor intended to be sold as a Scion.

[Vassp]

The mx5 is a car similar in concept to the 86 twins in that it was designed, built and fine tuned from the ground up for the enthusiast to enjoy, or tune to the next level. Toyota got some input from Mazda on the 2017, from what I've read it's mostly in suspension tune. That's why the 2017 is closer to the new mx5 than the original.

[Vassp]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Yes I agree with you 100% but as a Toyota with all those features not a Scion.

I was talking Scion as a brand and their normal line of vehicles. You probably don't understand how despised Scion was by the enthusiasts here. Scions were oddball, low cost vehicles aimed at a very specific demographic and the enthusiast was not part of that group. That was my point that the FRS/86 was never designed nor intended to be sold as a Scion.

Yeah Tcoat, I'm not at all familiar with scion as a brand, I was speaking from a Toyota standpoint. I even forgot my original point lol, oh yeah what the car was designed and built for. I'm glad Toyota stepped up and took over. It's what the car deserves.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Vassp

Yeah Tcoat, I'm not at all familiar with scion as a brand, I was speaking from a Toyota standpoint. I even forgot my original point lol, oh yeah what the car was designed and built for. I'm glad Toyota stepped up and took over. It's what the car deserves.

Well they didn't really take over. Scion was just a marketing arm of Toyota over here. It isn't like they were built different than the others we were just stuck with a basic "monospec" model and there were no choices of trim levels. This was A Scion thing to keep the prices lower to maintain their Pure Price "No price haggle" policy.
Although a good concept the whole thing was a huge failure in the end.

[Vassp]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Well they didn't really take over. Scion was just a marketing arm of Toyota over here. It isn't like they were built different than the others we were just stuck with a basic "monospec" model and there were no choices of trim levels. This was A Scion thing to keep the prices lower to maintain their Pure Price "No price haggle" policy.
Although a good concept the whole thing was a huge failure in the end.

Yeah but people perceive it differently with a Toyota badge.

[m.box.design]

if you can't sell them to 20 somethings who dont work 80 hours a week at a decent job, then might as well sell them to middle aged women.

[Vassp]

Ive been eyeing the new mx5 and 86 for ages now. Read a million reviews and online vids. I've driven the '13 86 and felt it was compromised as a street car in some respects. Now waiting for the 2017 to arrive in Australia so I can test them both back to back. Hard choice to make that's for sure.